I'm not sure if this is the right place for it.

[Tippy-ta-ta]

i have been a cna for the last 20 yrs. i have worked in numerous facilities. i have never had to report anyone i worked with for abuse. i had never seen any of my co -workers abuse a patient.

as a mandatory reporter, how does that work when you have witnessed elderly abuse on a personal level ??

i know i should report it cause it is the right thing to do. but how does that affect my cna certification if i don't ?? (although i plan on doing it if the abuser does not follow thru on the conditions that were made to her).

my mother in law has been taking care of her elderly dementia sister. i have witnessed her abuse her physically, emotionally and mentally. my husband and i keep telling her to put her in a home but she won't cause she says the dr. won't do it. my husband told her that if she didn't have her sister to another doctor and in a nursing home by the end of jan. that i would be calling aps. now my mother in law also has her 16 yo daughter and her niece (the sisters daughter) living with her. i have offered my help and it was refused. the other day i witnessed my mother in law hit her sister on the head with a rolled up magazine and yell at her to "open your eyes". i told her that that was considered elderly abuse and that she could get in trouble for it. my mother in law cussed me up one side and down the other and then hit my on the head with the same rolled up magazine, not to mention she has her tied in a wheelchair with scarves. i told my husband what had happen and that as a mandated reported i have a legal obligation to report her. if something were to happen the sister and there was suspected abuse and an investigation was called, if they were to interview us, they are gonna come at me for having a medical background and not reporting it. i will not jeopardize my career or my chance at nursing school because his mother is abusive.

so my question is, would my certification be at stake if i were not to report it (i plan on doing it if she does not have her to a doctor and in a home by the end of jan.) my mother in law is trying to tell my husband that they can't take my certification. that i am not legally obliged to report it because she's not in a nursing home, nor is there home health. (which she has needed for sometime now. although i think she would be better off in a nursing home.) what advice do you have for me. i'm really stuck in a pickle right now. my mother in law and i had a fairly decent relationship up until now. my husband supports me but my mother in law can be very persuasive to.

thx in advance.

[GHGoonette, BSN, RN]

I don't know how the law works in your country, but in mine it would be regarded as assault and as such, would be a matter for the police.

At the very least, you should report it to social services. If your mother in law is prepared to do things like that in front of witnesses, what is she doing when there's no-one around?

As a matter of interest, what is the age difference between the two? I ask this because your MIL's behaviour sounds abnormal, and I can't help wondering if you are not witnessing the early signs of mental degeneration.

[Tippy-ta-ta]

Mil is 64 the aunt is 69...and MIL has always been abusive. But never to me. my hubby has just told me stories from when he was growing up. That she was not a good mother.

[GHGoonette, BSN, RN]

If she has been like that all her life, she is not going to change now, in fact she's more likely to get worse. It sounds to me as if your husband is firmly on your side on this, so I wouldn't worry about it causing any family feuds if you do take action.

Have you thought about calling your aunt's doctor to find out if your MIL is telling the truth about him not wanting to admit her sister to a care facility? I can't imagine why he would not do it, and it might help if you made him aware of the situation.

What is your aunt's daughter's view on this? As the nearest relative, surely she can do something about it? After all, she can hardly be a minor...

[merlee]

So you witnessed an assault, then you yourself were assaulted. I realize that you are emotionally torn here, but 911 may have been appropriate on that day.

Aside from being a CNA, as a responsible person you should be contacting APS NOW. Do not wait a minute longer. The aunt may not make it until the end of January. Physical assault frequently escalates, and if she got away with in front of you she may feel quite confident about getting away with it every day.

Please call this in to the authorities ASAP. Please.

[southern rn]

Who cares if it is mandated if you report?Do it cause it's THE RIGHT THING TO DO. Imagine being elderly and in a wheelchair and someone hitting you like that!If the home situation is investigated, that would probably expedite the lady being admitted to a home. I wouldn't care if the MIL broke all ties with me, if she would have hit me like she did you it would have all been over with any way.

[Mrs. Sparkle Pants]

Not only could you lose your license, you could go to prison. Call now! Not just to save your butt, but for That poor woman who can't stand up for herself!

[mentalhealthRN]

I was in a similar situation with my fiance`s uncle who cares for my fiance`s grandma. After we found her sitting, tied into a chair, in her own feces, no food or water nearby and her immobilie....we cleaned her up and got the message tothe uncle stat that I was a mandated reporter as an RN and that I was furious and if no plan for 24 hour care by days end I had the number for adult protective looked up and in my phone already. Told him I would testify against him and be sure charges were pressed. He had 24 hour care in place by days end and now is afraid of me. You can't let neglect or abuse happen, period. If you are aware of it and do nothing you are just as guilty. Call adult protective now. Call the police. Have a backbone and do what is right--mother-in-law or not, she needs to be stopped. As a society I believe it is our responsibility to be the voice of those who can't speak for themselves--the elderly and the children, the disabled. To be sure they are protected and safe. And as far as the "doctor not wanting to put her in a home"---um he is likey unaware of the abuse and APS will pullher out of that house and put her in a LTC facility. I got a number of patients who came to the hospital or LTC who were pulled out of homes by APS. I would not even be thinking about the issue of you CNA license. Don't let your mother-in-law bully you into not reporting. This is not about mandated or not, your license or not. Its about her being a criminal and the your husbands aunt a VICTIM.

[Rabid Response]

Unfortunately, your concern seems to be more about your CNA certification than about the welfare of that elderly woman. Report your MIL to APS immediately. Do you really think it is okay to allow her to be smacked in the head and tied to a chair for one more month while you wait out some silly ultimatum? Would you want someone you cared about to endure even one day in the care of that woman? You have an ethical responsibility as a HUMAN being to intervene here. For God's sake, do not wait one whole month to rescue this old lady.

[tyvin, BSN, RN]

I believe you knew what the response was going to be and just need that extra "push" to do the right thing. Not only abuse but the scarves to the wheelchair are definitely a restraint and without a doctors order for the restraint is an absolutely huge no no.

Look in the front of your phone book and call your state's ombudsman and they will point you in the right direction.

[JenniferSews]

Put yourself in the aunt's shoes. Would you want to live a life where you were in fear, tied to a chair and abused daily? Call APS today, regardless of the consequences to the family dynamics. You wouldn't want everyone to turn a blind eye to you being treated horribly. Don't do that to her.

[AmericanRN]

Rabid Response, GHGoonette and Jennifer Sews said it ALL!!!!!!!

This has nothing to do with CNA certification, being mandated reporters or needing an MD order for restraints or any of this paperwork/political BS. The fact that we even have to mandate a segment of society to report violations of fundamental human rights is pathetic but I digress.

This situation has everything to do with the fact that she is abusing a vulnerable human being and everyone is standing by allowing it to happen. Call the police so they can the see the condition this woman is being forced to live in. The police can be there in a few minutes as opposed to the long drawn out drama of state investigators. Besides the investigative agencies need a paperwork trail like a police report since this is coming from relatives and not a facility. Not only is this battery but it's battery on an elderly person which carries a higher charge in most states. Tieing a human being up in a private residence is called false imprisonment in my state.