I think I'm professional, but now I'm not so sure, after I told some American friends that as a male nurse, I don't catheterize women.
'That's sexist' was one of the kinder comments, while one of the more rational comments said - "We are professionals. As long as we behave in a professional way, then we should all have to do the same job."
I naturally asked 'does this mean we're nurses first, and men/women second?' and they didn't give a concise answer.
Am I the only male who thinks that it is harder for a female patient as well as for a male nurse to do such an intimate procedure?
Am I the only nurse who thinks that gender does matter? What harm does it cause if I choose not to do a procedure when there are capable people around who could do it just as well, plus make it easier for the patient. As a male nurse, I need a female chaperone if doing such a procedure on a woman anyway, so why not make it easier for everyone and simply keep the male out of it altogether?
But what does being a "Professional" mean? From what I'm hearing from others it sounds like I am a sexless machine capable of doing it all because that is what I am paid to do. Instead I think of myself as a caring carer. I have my faults and biases. I make mistakes and I sometimes let my feelings help make my decisions. But I have a big heart and I do the job because I care first. I enjoy making people laugh when they're sick. I enjoy being able to make a difference in people's lives. I also do the job recognizing my faults, and if I ever think that my views/faults may jeopardize a patient, I know to get someone else to take over that patient's care. I guess I'm not a very successful Sexless Professional. But I can live with being called sexist and unprofessional, just because I sometimes refuse to do female catheterization. I'm sure there's a lot worse things I could be.
A couple of extra points to mention:
For the record, the female staff used to ask me to catheterize the men, and they'd do the same for my female patients, and we never had a problem.
Also it's strange, but apparently I'm allowed to catheterize little old ladies, but not young women. Sounds a bit ageist to me. Do the feelings of older people not matter as much as those of young people? Naturally I'd never contemplate such a procedure on a young woman.
I work in an ER where we have lots of hemoccults ordered on men and lots of caths ordered on women. I ask my male nurse buddies to do the hemoccult cards on my male patients and I do their caths. It's a system that works well for us. If it makes the patient more comfortable, why not ask our fellow nurses to help us out. That's what nursing is. Helping each other out. If you think you can nurse all by yourself you've got another thing coming. Treat others as you'd want to be treated. And who cares as long as the job gets done?
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
Oh geez.
If I was sick and one of "our guys" here was my nurse, I would not hesitate to let them care for me, cath me, etc.
Except the OP.
When I had my cancer surgery a few years ago, I needed to be cathed. Two nurses came in to do the procedure, and I was thankful that they were there to help me.
ETA: I forgot to say that one of the nurses was male. It didn't matter to me.
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
Your comment is a perfect example of why a chaperone is used in the hospitals I've worked in. 'Intimate' means one thing to you, and maybe something different to your patient. I have a strange suspicion that it would be easier for a patient to misconstrue/misinterpret something when a man is near their privates, than a woman. I guess the hospital felt that way as well.
I'm beginning to think this is yet another one of those creepy "nurse/sex" threads that have so recently been plaguing this site.
FTR, OP, "intimate" does not always mean something sexual. Unless your last name is "Webster," I don't think you get to dictate the meaning of words.
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
Oh geez.
If I was sick and one of "our guys" here was my nurse, I would not hesitate to let them care for me, cath me, etc.
Except the OP.
Well, until working with some american nurses, all I ever knew was that you had a chaperone if doing certain procedures on a female - so for practical purposes, I'd sort the male patients out, and the women would sort out my female patients for such procedures.
What I find concerning is this attitude that a nurse has to do it all, that our likes and dislikes don't matter, that fellow nurses would not think me a real nurse because of one procedure I don't do.
To the "sexless nurse", I too say, you are not hated, blot that word from your vocabulary. You are a warm, breathing, functioning nurse. You are needed!! Work with your team and do the job before you, short of being cursed at, if the patient needs it done, Do It. That's what you went to school for. Be compassionate with yourself, your patients, and your co-workers!!! We are in short supply, we must take care of each other!!!
To the OP, I don't think you're crazy or non professional. You are male and when you are standing in front of a lady parts things go off. Because it's hard for you to focus on your primary task which is helping your patient and your body which is built to be stimulated by female sexual parts reacts. I don't think this is unnatural. The way people who have this tendency deal with it is by intellectualizing or elevating the procedure. Intellectualizing means saying this is a medical procedure and I'm a professional so I'm not allowed to have these thoughts. Elevating the procedure means focusing on the fact that you will alleviate another person's suffering by doing the task or you will help promote their healing. In my opinion it's not wrong to have someone else do the procedure if you aren't in control of your thoughts. In fact it is probably the moral thing to do especially if the person is trusting you to do the procedure on the basis that you are professional. I think women in general while they can be very sexual beings have a slightly lower sexual drive than men. I'm not saying all women, some women. In general, the more you expose yourself to something, the less sensitive you get. The question is: do you want that? Something to think about. I think at the end of the day this all comes down to boundaries and the way you look at your patients.
I would like to thank you for your sensitivity. Have you asked female patients whether they were comfortable with it or not? They might be completely fine w/ it. But I don't think it's okay to tell a modest woman she just has no say in the matter -- if there are female RNs on the floor. I had a repeat pt in a rehab unit I used to work in, and I'd end up doing all ADLs with her because she didn't want a male CNA help her to the toilet or get dressed. That is her right.
I am quite modest myself, and have chosen CNM groups vs. OB-GYN groups simply because I'd be guaranteed a female provider. (Clarification: no male CNMs practice in my area.) I might be okay with a male RN because I understand how staffing issues are, but I would not allow male nursing students--who are nonessential to my care--in my delivery room at push time.
And no, I don't care if a female RN is gay, because I know full well that providers don't get turned on by pts' parts. Gay females have the same parts as I do, so no modesty issues.
I live in an area with a huge Muslim population (religion wise, 2nd only to Catholicism, at least the latest statistic I'm aware of.) I haven't seen preferences expressed much where I work now, but 10 yrs ago at my other hospital it was understood that females of the big immigrant group would be assigned to female RNs. Also when scheduling [big local foreign lang] interpreters now, we have the option to specify male or female. Nobody cries foul, because part of our job us to be sensitive to the needs of the pt.
To me, where professionalism would be an issue is if a female patient was 100% comfortable having you cathing her, but you were not comfortable with it.
And yes, if a female colleague does any tasks for you, you need to return the favor.
One word of advice - whether you like it or not, you will discover your likes and dislikes, it's part of discovering your strengths and weaknesses. It's important to recognize them, and know understand your limits.
Wow, you make nursing seem like a business because a colleague who found this sort of nursing wasn't for him, in your mind, was being lazy. Maybe he was, but you shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush.
Well. This has got to be one of the more uncomfortable, weird threads I've read in some time.
I thought the title was going to lead me to a discussion of a nurse who isn't getting any sex....not a nurse who couldn't figure OUT his sex. Or the prioritization of his gender. Or something.
At any rate, I believe as long as the PATIENT is made to feel important, his or her feelings are the ONLY ones considered, then I don't care WHAT the nurse might think about performing a procedure that is well within the scope of practice for that nurse.
I was never a huge fan of Foley insertion, regardless of what gender was on the receiving end. But it was my job, and it was my job to make the patient as comfortable as could be possible considering the circumstances of our "spending time" together.
OP, if you're not sure how a patient feels about something, ASK HER. To assume she feels one way or another is simply wrong, IMHO. Certainly you aren't questioning the patient as to her sexual preferences, correct? So you cannot know if she's a gay woman.....a transgendered male....or whatever terminology I'm probably butchering....but the POINT is, it is wrong for you to ASSUME that it is YOU who automatically knows what the patient may or may not prefer.
It is good to be sensitive to a patient's concerns. It is not good to assume what those concerns are, automatically, and without discussion. You might just be surprised at what your patients think when you ask them :)
I do take issue with the constant repetition of 'maybe it's Americans" or "it's your culture" or any of the variations that make it appear as though you are more compassionate, more caring than your American counterparts. I would suggest that since you are not considering, truly, WHAT your patient would prefer because you don't SPEAK with them on the topic, you are missing that caring, compassionate component that American nurses do hold up with high measure.
I'm not saying you aren't caring, or not compassionate. I'm saying that you are assuming that to be true of Americans simply because we are approaching the topic differently. It's an unfair categorization.
My culture is not indifferent to women's feelings. My culture recognizes that women are not interchangeable, that we all feel, think, want different things. You know....like INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE
Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).
I'm worried about the almost militant sounding attitude, that you're a nurse, so do it all. Where has the care/compassion gone. There's certainly doesn't seem to be much empathy out there, as the majority of patients I know, prefer someone of the same gender to do certain intimate procedures.
As for any male nurse ok with catheterizing an 18yr old girl, who says 'she's fine with it' is simply being blind to their patient's needs.
I certainly get what you are saying and am going to nice because I don't appreciate mean spirited people when you are asking an honest question. There was a time when nursing was 100% women. I often wonder what went through the head of the first man to enter nursing school? Was his manhood and sexual identity questioned? I have worked with many fine nurses male and female and in certain situations will take intimate care over for a male nurse. However I resent when a Male nurse won't catheterize a man or a woman because it makes them (the nurse ) uncomfortable. The other night my co-worker (a male) asked me to pull the catheter on a gentleman who he (the nurse) had had problems with since he arrived. It's no skin off my nose to make the patient more comfortable. But I asked the family if there had been a problem with getting the foley out earlier. The family told me that the nurse said nothing when he came in, pulled back the blankets, stripped down the underwear and proceeded to deflate the balloon . My gentleman client who is confused tried to hit the other nurse. I told the family to please explain that I was going to take out the catheter and actually did it withou exposing the patient to the world at large. No fuss, no muss, no violence.
In another instance myself and a female co-worker had to catheterize a female demtia patient who was very difficult and who had an anotomical anonally that made the procedure difficult. When we were done the lady ask for the phone which I gave her and asked if I could dial a number for her. She said quite pleasantly "You can call 911 because I have just been raped and you are both going to jail.
Even though she has dementia we had to go through risk management and the police came to take a statement from all parties involved as the POA is quite picky and intrusive and we had to cover all our bases.
So no if there is an intimate procedure that a male nurse is uncomfortable with and I can do it and the nurse reciprocates by passing my meds while I am attending to his patient - I have no problem at all. Nursing is after all a team sport.
BecomingNursey
334 Posts
I work in an ER where we have lots of hemoccults ordered on men and lots of caths ordered on women. I ask my male nurse buddies to do the hemoccult cards on my male patients and I do their caths. It's a system that works well for us. If it makes the patient more comfortable, why not ask our fellow nurses to help us out. That's what nursing is. Helping each other out. If you think you can nurse all by yourself you've got another thing coming. Treat others as you'd want to be treated. And who cares as long as the job gets done?