I think I'm professional, but now I'm not so sure, after I told some American friends that as a male nurse, I don't catheterize women.
'That's sexist' was one of the kinder comments, while one of the more rational comments said - "We are professionals. As long as we behave in a professional way, then we should all have to do the same job."
I naturally asked 'does this mean we're nurses first, and men/women second?' and they didn't give a concise answer.
Am I the only male who thinks that it is harder for a female patient as well as for a male nurse to do such an intimate procedure?
Am I the only nurse who thinks that gender does matter? What harm does it cause if I choose not to do a procedure when there are capable people around who could do it just as well, plus make it easier for the patient. As a male nurse, I need a female chaperone if doing such a procedure on a woman anyway, so why not make it easier for everyone and simply keep the male out of it altogether?
But what does being a "Professional" mean? From what I'm hearing from others it sounds like I am a sexless machine capable of doing it all because that is what I am paid to do. Instead I think of myself as a caring carer. I have my faults and biases. I make mistakes and I sometimes let my feelings help make my decisions. But I have a big heart and I do the job because I care first. I enjoy making people laugh when they're sick. I enjoy being able to make a difference in people's lives. I also do the job recognizing my faults, and if I ever think that my views/faults may jeopardize a patient, I know to get someone else to take over that patient's care. I guess I'm not a very successful Sexless Professional. But I can live with being called sexist and unprofessional, just because I sometimes refuse to do female catheterization. I'm sure there's a lot worse things I could be.
A couple of extra points to mention:
For the record, the female staff used to ask me to catheterize the men, and they'd do the same for my female patients, and we never had a problem.
Also it's strange, but apparently I'm allowed to catheterize little old ladies, but not young women. Sounds a bit ageist to me. Do the feelings of older people not matter as much as those of young people? Naturally I'd never contemplate such a procedure on a young woman.
1. OP, it would seem that your particular job situation combined with your age has shaped your personal views on gender, procedures, and intimacy into a different shape than many of those who have commented. This is fine, it does not seem like you are causing a ruckus at work, or going on some sort of crusade. You've actually worked out a system that allows your views room to breathe while providing the proper care for your patients.
However, the simple fact of the matter is that your viewpoint is simply in the distinct minority on this board. You asked a question, you've received answers. Posters aren't lying to you just to piss you off. There's no sense in being offended that we don't feel the same way.
2. I'm a male RN working in ICU. When I'm gong to perform a procedure on a female patient, like a foley insertion, I make sure to explain to them why the foley has been ordered, what the procedure will entail exactly, and then ask if they are comfortable with me, as a male, performing the cath, or if they would prefer a female. I always make sure to add that last part. 5-10% of these ladies will choose a a female nurse, but the vast majority will allow me to place the foley.
3. To answer your question, nurses are professionals first, males and females second, although it's a close second. I make sure to explain any procedure completely to my pt, male or female, before I perform it, because they have a right to be fully informed. I find that a lot of fears and suspicion can be eliminated with a complete explanation. Walking in with a foley kit, declaring you're placing a catheter because the MD said so, while snapping on a pair of gloves is going to be traumatic for anyone. Being professional reduces and/or eliminates fear.
4. Americans do have a different view on sex, genitals, and intimacy than many other cultures due to the feminist movement and the free love of the 60's and 70's. Mediastars are recognizable celebrities, and even Family Guy offers up "sex scenes". We recognize that we are a different culture than many others, and yet we strive to be inclusive in our healthcare. Part of our admission assessment is to determine if a pt has any culturally specific needs that we can address and observe. This includes asking if they prefer a male or a female nurse to perform their care.
5. Perhaps you and I could never see eye to eye because we are dealing with incredibly differing patients. You are in contact with teen girls who are mostly healthy, in what seems to be a more sexually conservative place. I am in contact with mostly American women who are incredibly sick, and rarely under 30 yrs old. Nearly all of my patients are more worried about if they will be leaving my unit in a wheelchair or a body bag than the chromosomal structure of the RN caring for them.
I think our viewpoints, yours and mine, and yours and most of the other posters, are completely different because of the setting we care in. I think your viewpoint is weird. My professionalism allows me to care for women without them feeling awkward or worse. However, you think my viewpoint is weird because professionalism cannot overcome the age, sexual immaturity/maturity, and cultural expectations of the specific group you care for. This is a classic agree-to-disagree situation. Perhaps if we changed spots, our views would change.
Oh my goodness - this has nothing to do with sexuality/being turned on. Bloody hell, if you ever want to turn a guy off women, put them in the gynae ward, that will work every time. What the heck is going on when all I say is i'm not comfortable catheterizing women??? What the hell is going on??? There is nothing sexual about this.
During my 6 months in the gynae ward, whenever I walked into a 4 bedded bay, especially for the first time, especially as the first male to ever work in the ward, everyone got a shock.
I did have to learn to do some things others didn't. Like when examining a surgical wound, I'd get a clean towel and cover the lower parts, while exposing only the wound, while my female colleagues often exposed them all. Or knocking on the door to the room, calling out 'morning ladies' so they'd know it's the guy coming in - the ladies did begin to appreciate the extra effort I made, and after a traumatic start, finished on a good note, but knowing that the large majority of female patients do automatically find a male nurse a shock, can make you feel uncomfortable at times.
Until you push a 10 pound baby out of "down there", you have no idea what a vunerable position is!
I'm beginning to wonder if my comments are insulting people's egos because they feel that as a professional, they're above such things as gender, and proudly go about doing it all, cause they're super-nurse.
The fact is, the vast majority of women don't want a guy down 'there'.
Men are in a particularly vulnerable position during such procedures.
Many patients don't complain, even when they're uncomfortable.
Many places outside the USA do things differently - this doesn't make either right or wrong.
It is ok for a nurse to choose not to do a procedure. We're not robots, we're human, and a little humanity, compassion and understanding to our colleagues weaknesses and strengths, as well as our patients, creates a much better work environment.
? Is there a team spirit, where we know each others' strong points and weaknesses, and we learn to draw on each other to create the best outcome for our patients? Or is everyone so proud of their ability to do it all, to be super nurse, to not need aid, to be able to work a 60hr work week unfazed, to have as much knowledge as the doctor?
Knowing our weaknesses, our limits, and not being afraid to admit them, is vital. I'd rather work with a good nurse who knew their limits and when to get help, as opposed to someone who knows it all, and tries to do it all, and feels unable to get help from those around them.
What is happening to people's compassion when I say there is one procedure, I choose not do?
1. OP, it would seem that your particular job situation combined with your age has shaped your personal views on gender, procedures, and intimacy into a different shape than many of those who have commented. This is fine, it does not seem like you are causing a ruckus at work, or going on some sort of crusade. You've actually worked out a system that allows your views room to breathe while providing the proper care for your patients.
However, the simple fact of the matter is that your viewpoint is simply in the distinct minority on this board. You asked a question, you've received answers. Posters aren't lying to you just to piss you off. There's no sense in being offended that we don't feel the same way.
2. I'm a male RN working in ICU. When I'm gong to perform a procedure on a female patient, like a foley insertion, I make sure to explain to them why the foley has been ordered, what the procedure will entail exactly, and then ask if they are comfortable with me, as a male, performing the cath, or if they would prefer a female. I always make sure to add that last part. 5-10% of these ladies will choose a a female nurse, but the vast majority will allow me to place the foley.
3. To answer your question, nurses are professionals first, males and females second, although it's a close second. I make sure to explain any procedure completely to my pt, male or female, before I perform it, because they have a right to be fully informed. I find that a lot of fears and suspicion can be eliminated with a complete explanation. Walking in with a foley kit, declaring you're placing a catheter because the MD said so, while snapping on a pair of gloves is going to be traumatic for anyone. Being professional reduces and/or eliminates fear.
4. Americans do have a different view on sex, genitals, and intimacy than many other cultures due to the feminist movement and the free love of the 60's and 70's. Mediastars are recognizable celebrities, and even Family Guy offers up "sex scenes". We recognize that we are a different culture than many others, and yet we strive to be inclusive in our healthcare. Part of our admission assessment is to determine if a pt has any culturally specific needs that we can address and observe. This includes asking if they prefer a male or a female nurse to perform their care.
5. Perhaps you and I could never see eye to eye because we are dealing with incredibly differing patients. You are in contact with teen girls who are mostly healthy, in what seems to be a more sexually conservative place. I am in contact with mostly American women who are incredibly sick, and rarely under 30 yrs old. Nearly all of my patients are more worried about if they will be leaving my unit in a wheelchair or a body bag than the chromosomal structure of the RN caring for them.
I think our viewpoints, yours and mine, and yours and most of the other posters, are completely different because of the setting we care in. I think your viewpoint is weird. My professionalism allows me to care for women without them feeling awkward or worse. However, you think my viewpoint is weird because professionalism cannot overcome the age, sexual immaturity/maturity, and cultural expectations of the specific group you care for. This is a classic agree-to-disagree situation. Perhaps if we changed spots, our views would change.
You asked for my opinion, here it is.
I wonder how we can replicate you so that you can work in every facility across the country? Great attitude :)
To the OP I don't think you're crazy or non professional. [b']You are male and when you are standing in front of a lady parts things go off[/b]. Because it's hard for you to focus on your primary task which is helping your patient and your body which is built to be stimulated by female sexual parts reacts. I don't think this is unnatural.
Seriously? Being a heterosexual female things sometimes "go off" when I stand in front of a member attached to a male who I find attractive. To date that has never happened with a patient. I can't imagine that it ever will. Even if it weren't deeply unprofessional, I don't find sick, needy, in pain or discomfort, scared, vulnerable and dependent on me especially erotic.
I have no need to "intellectualize the procedure" to rein in my run-amok hormones. Nothing in a hospitalized patient makes me think sex, and it doesn't have a darn thing to do with strong or weak sex drive. The necessity to help someone to pee simply isn't a turn on.
In my opinion it's not wrong to have someone else do the procedure if you aren't in control of your thoughts. In fact it is probably the moral thing to do especially if the person is trusting you to do the procedure on the basis that you are professional.
I have to agree with you there. If the mere sight of genitalia, no matter whose and in what context, means that the nurse can't remain professional, it's best for the patient to have someone else perform the nursing care.
I think at the end of the day this all comes down to boundaries and the way you look at your patients.
I guess you can just call me insensitive. I didn't know this was such a big deal since I have dealt with male genitalia and body orifices since the start of my career. I have never expected anyone to do these jobs for me. In fact I have only had a handful of patients that seemed to mind at all.
I have had a few that made me uncomfortable, but I put my big girl pants on and dealt with it. The one pt who made things sexual was reassigned.
1. OP, it would seem that your particular job situation combined with your age has shaped your personal views on gender, procedures, and intimacy into a different shape than many of those who have commented. This is fine, it does not seem like you are causing a ruckus at work, or going on some sort of crusade. You've actually worked out a system that allows your views room to breathe while providing the proper care for your patients.
However, the simple fact of the matter is that your viewpoint is simply in the distinct minority on this board. You asked a question, you've received answers. Posters aren't lying to you just to piss you off. There's no sense in being offended that we don't feel the same way.
2. I'm a male RN working in ICU. When I'm gong to perform a procedure on a female patient, like a foley insertion, I make sure to explain to them why the foley has been ordered, what the procedure will entail exactly, and then ask if they are comfortable with me, as a male, performing the cath, or if they would prefer a female. I always make sure to add that last part. 5-10% of these ladies will choose a a female nurse, but the vast majority will allow me to place the foley.
3. To answer your question, nurses are professionals first, males and females second, although it's a close second. I make sure to explain any procedure completely to my pt, male or female, before I perform it, because they have a right to be fully informed. I find that a lot of fears and suspicion can be eliminated with a complete explanation. Walking in with a foley kit, declaring you're placing a catheter because the MD said so, while snapping on a pair of gloves is going to be traumatic for anyone. Being professional reduces and/or eliminates fear.
4. Americans do have a different view on sex, genitals, and intimacy than many other cultures due to the feminist movement and the free love of the 60's and 70's. Mediastars are recognizable celebrities, and even Family Guy offers up "sex scenes". We recognize that we are a different culture than many others, and yet we strive to be inclusive in our healthcare. Part of our admission assessment is to determine if a pt has any culturally specific needs that we can address and observe. This includes asking if they prefer a male or a female nurse to perform their care.
5. Perhaps you and I could never see eye to eye because we are dealing with incredibly differing patients. You are in contact with teen girls who are mostly healthy, in what seems to be a more sexually conservative place. I am in contact with mostly American women who are incredibly sick, and rarely under 30 yrs old. Nearly all of my patients are more worried about if they will be leaving my unit in a wheelchair or a body bag than the chromosomal structure of the RN caring for them.
I think our viewpoints, yours and mine, and yours and most of the other posters, are completely different because of the setting we care in. I think your viewpoint is weird. My professionalism allows me to care for women without them feeling awkward or worse. However, you think my viewpoint is weird because professionalism cannot overcome the age, sexual immaturity/maturity, and cultural expectations of the specific group you care for. This is a classic agree-to-disagree situation. Perhaps if we changed spots, our views would change.
I guess you can just call me insensitive. I didn't know this was such a big deal since I have dealt with male genitalia and body orifices since the start of my career. I have never expected anyone to do these jobs for me. In fact I have only had a handful of patients that seemed to mind at all.
I have had a few that made me uncomfortable, but I put my big girl pants on and dealt with it. The one pt who made things sexual was reassigned.
Agree.
Having worked in healthcare since the age of 19, I learned quickly on what was appropriate for the pt; and figured out what was the best, I've only had a handful of pts that I wouldn't be able to deal with, and That's saying a lot, because I'be been in healthcare for 15 years; at this point nothing is going to surprise me, and as I have gotten older wiser, and understand that situations are fluid, I equate my nurse-pt interaction as a dance-where most times pts take the lead.
I have worked with pts of trauma, and working bedside with pts in a longer healthcare setting, most of the females had NO issues with males providing care.
I think around my pubescent days I felt uncomfortable around male doctors, however male nurses were fine-It wasn't until I had a major medical incident where I really didn't care who saw me naked, it was between a life and death situation; that solidified that my care is to be provided by someone who is competent and NOT based on gender.
lady parts, lady parts, lady parts, labia, labia, vulva, lady parts, labia, privy parts, lady parts, urethra, lady parts, urethra, lady parts, lady parts lady parts.
They shouldn't be any different to you than an elbow. If you're able to sexualize a lady parts in a medical setting you haven't seen enough of them. (Trust me!!)
Of course in an emergency no one gives a damn who does what. We all pitch in and get the job done. In 23yrs of nursing, I struggle to think of a life threatening catheter situation, although I did spend some time in urology, and I'm not looking forward to my prostate playing up, but in those cases, yes, a catheter was pretty urgently needed.
But simply because you're a woman, working in a traditionally female profession, you cannot know what it's like for a male to be in this role. Female patients, even now, often get a bit of a surprise at a male nurse.
Just maybe, different populations in different parts of the world, feel a differently to the modern american woman. Where I come from in New Zealand, a male is still a bit of a novelty, and you can see the patients trying to figure you out.
But I am fine with it, otherwise i wouldn't be here 23yrs later.
Are you serious? This has nothing to do with sexualization. You simply don't get it, and nothing I say will. Perhaps it's true that men are from mars, women from venus.
I just want to say that I understand what you are struggling with here. Someone I know had to have a catheter after a C-section at the hospital. There was no one around to do it except a male nurse and it had to be done. She said that even though her husband was in the room with her, it was so degrading and uncomfortable, and her husband was not happy either. I know I would hate to have a man who was not my husband looking at parts that should never be seen.
I am only a nursing student, but I know that I am very uncomfortable with dealing with more intimate issues with men. Yes, as a student CNA, I have helped clean male residents during a shower. It was uncomfortable for me, but instead I focused on the process getting done and interacting with my resident. I think however, catheters are a totally different issue. I have not gotten to that point yet, but if I have to put a catheter in a man, I would try to do it as professionally as I can. I would probably want a family member in the room or another nurse.
Just my thoughts on the matter. I think looking at the whole will make it easier. Also, maybe if your patient has support by family around..... I sympathize and totally understand.......By the way, though I have spent most of my life in the U.S., my mindset and approach to matters is more.....I don't know....outside of U.S. culture.
You're not creepy, your totally sane. I am very surprised by the other comments on this post. I think they could have been more constructive rather than criticizing. I say keep up the good work and don't worry if others don't agree with you.
when I stand in front of a member attached to a male who I find attractive. To date that has never happened with a patient. I can't imagine that it ever will. Even if it weren't deeply unprofessional, I don't find sick, needy, in pain or discomfort, scared, vulnerable and dependent on me especially erotic. 
ThatBigGuy
268 Posts
1. OP, it would seem that your particular job situation combined with your age has shaped your personal views on gender, procedures, and intimacy into a different shape than many of those who have commented. This is fine, it does not seem like you are causing a ruckus at work, or going on some sort of crusade. You've actually worked out a system that allows your views room to breathe while providing the proper care for your patients.
However, the simple fact of the matter is that your viewpoint is simply in the distinct minority on this board. You asked a question, you've received answers. Posters aren't lying to you just to piss you off. There's no sense in being offended that we don't feel the same way.
2. I'm a male RN working in ICU. When I'm gong to perform a procedure on a female patient, like a foley insertion, I make sure to explain to them why the foley has been ordered, what the procedure will entail exactly, and then ask if they are comfortable with me, as a male, performing the cath, or if they would prefer a female. I always make sure to add that last part. 5-10% of these ladies will choose a a female nurse, but the vast majority will allow me to place the foley.
3. To answer your question, nurses are professionals first, males and females second, although it's a close second. I make sure to explain any procedure completely to my pt, male or female, before I perform it, because they have a right to be fully informed. I find that a lot of fears and suspicion can be eliminated with a complete explanation. Walking in with a foley kit, declaring you're placing a catheter because the MD said so, while snapping on a pair of gloves is going to be traumatic for anyone. Being professional reduces and/or eliminates fear.
4. Americans do have a different view on sex, genitals, and intimacy than many other cultures due to the feminist movement and the free love of the 60's and 70's. Mediastars are recognizable celebrities, and even Family Guy offers up "sex scenes". We recognize that we are a different culture than many others, and yet we strive to be inclusive in our healthcare. Part of our admission assessment is to determine if a pt has any culturally specific needs that we can address and observe. This includes asking if they prefer a male or a female nurse to perform their care.
5. Perhaps you and I could never see eye to eye because we are dealing with incredibly differing patients. You are in contact with teen girls who are mostly healthy, in what seems to be a more sexually conservative place. I am in contact with mostly American women who are incredibly sick, and rarely under 30 yrs old. Nearly all of my patients are more worried about if they will be leaving my unit in a wheelchair or a body bag than the chromosomal structure of the RN caring for them.
I think our viewpoints, yours and mine, and yours and most of the other posters, are completely different because of the setting we care in. I think your viewpoint is weird. My professionalism allows me to care for women without them feeling awkward or worse. However, you think my viewpoint is weird because professionalism cannot overcome the age, sexual immaturity/maturity, and cultural expectations of the specific group you care for. This is a classic agree-to-disagree situation. Perhaps if we changed spots, our views would change.
You asked for my opinion, here it is.