I think I'm professional, but now I'm not so sure, after I told some American friends that as a male nurse, I don't catheterize women.
'That's sexist' was one of the kinder comments, while one of the more rational comments said - "We are professionals. As long as we behave in a professional way, then we should all have to do the same job."
I naturally asked 'does this mean we're nurses first, and men/women second?' and they didn't give a concise answer.
Am I the only male who thinks that it is harder for a female patient as well as for a male nurse to do such an intimate procedure?
Am I the only nurse who thinks that gender does matter? What harm does it cause if I choose not to do a procedure when there are capable people around who could do it just as well, plus make it easier for the patient. As a male nurse, I need a female chaperone if doing such a procedure on a woman anyway, so why not make it easier for everyone and simply keep the male out of it altogether?
But what does being a "Professional" mean? From what I'm hearing from others it sounds like I am a sexless machine capable of doing it all because that is what I am paid to do. Instead I think of myself as a caring carer. I have my faults and biases. I make mistakes and I sometimes let my feelings help make my decisions. But I have a big heart and I do the job because I care first. I enjoy making people laugh when they're sick. I enjoy being able to make a difference in people's lives. I also do the job recognizing my faults, and if I ever think that my views/faults may jeopardize a patient, I know to get someone else to take over that patient's care. I guess I'm not a very successful Sexless Professional. But I can live with being called sexist and unprofessional, just because I sometimes refuse to do female catheterization. I'm sure there's a lot worse things I could be.
A couple of extra points to mention:
For the record, the female staff used to ask me to catheterize the men, and they'd do the same for my female patients, and we never had a problem.
Also it's strange, but apparently I'm allowed to catheterize little old ladies, but not young women. Sounds a bit ageist to me. Do the feelings of older people not matter as much as those of young people? Naturally I'd never contemplate such a procedure on a young woman.
I have seen a male gyno once in my lifetime and it is not an experience I would like to replay. Specifically, because I found him to be inappropriate. Bad experience all together. Since then I have always requested a female nurse and physician. This is MY personal feeling on the subject. The next woman or man may have different views. I think we should leave it up to the patient, ask him/her what they would prefer before performing a more "intimate" exam.
I do, however, feel that a female nurse should always be present when a man is performing an exam on any woman. And I do not feel that there should be any ageism involved in that matter.
The amount of discrimination us male nurses have to endure is beyond description. It occurs with impunity because we have no protections in place, and when you make such a claim, ridicule is usually the first response. Being a larger guy, who I am told looks mean (I am half blooded Native American), when one of the idiots that have power over me (you know, those lazy do nothing unit managers and DONs and other Nazi types)is under pressure from some other do nothing scumbag that has power over them, they always come after me to make it look like they are really kicking some butt. At one place, I could see from the demeanor of the DON that she was under pressure from the administrator, so I predicted to everyone in that facility "either Robert or I will be fired in less than a week". That time it was Robert, a few years later, it was my turn. If women were treated 1/10th as bad as we are on a routine basis on a male dominated profession, say law enforcement, there would be lawsuits. I would be a millionaire many times over. Yet it continues with impunity.
My advice to the guy who wrote this article. If you do perform any procedure like straight cathing a woman, make sure you have someone in the room to be a witness, preferably another woman. This one guy merely removed some transdermal patch from a woman's chest, the old woman later decided to accuse this guy of fondling her. The state investigated and found him innocent. This guy could get all the women he wanted, he was professional, and would never even contemplate such a thing. Many women are initially self conscious about being partially or totally nude with a male caregiver until they get to know me. I am the gentle giant that breaks my back for them every day. I get them water when they ask. I answer their call lights right away. I transfer them physically to the toilet when they have to go. I talk to them like they are people and not just objects, etc etc. Part of it is because of what comes from the heart, and part of it is because I know full well that if I don't stand out, I will be out of a job real fast. I have always been extremely popular at every facility where I was allowed to work, usually in a hostile work environment because some other woman or women decide from the start that they don't like me (for no particular reason). I wind up having a lot of other people's work dumped on me, but I have learned to just keep taking it, because if I have the audacity to ask that I be treated fairly, not only will nothing get done about it, but I will likely get fired because I am asking someone in management to actually do some work. It much easier to run me out the door that do what is right.
I know take care of a crippled kid who is vent dependent. It is substantially less pay, but seeing the families and the actual patients I care for always like me when and if I am given a chance, I know I will have a job. Working in nursing homes and more recently, this one hospital, a story in and of itself, I know when the state surveyors hammer the place to get fine money because the budgets are all broke or drying up because the economy itself is now in a permanent state of contraction, the pressure will start from the owner to the administrator to the DON to the lazy, do nothing/refuse to work the floor or help out unit managers, who then take it out on a floor nurse. I am always the first. I bankrupted trying to work in nursing homes and this one hospital. Financial ruin and I worked at least 3 times harder and better than my female co workers. I had to. I worked at this place for 5 years, I felt like I was surrounded by vipers, all these angry, stressed out women that do nothing but complain, trying to scratch my eyes out, gossiping, trying to start or actually starting trouble, dump their work off on me, the usual routine. The residents and their families got to submit a form of commendation called the "golden apple" award. The one who got the most golden apples won employee of the month and got their name on a plaque on the wall. Residents and their families would ask me if I got the golden apple, I was nominated hundreds of times, so they would tell me. I never once received anything but threats and harassment. Not that I cared about their awards or being employee of the month and all that, the point is that it was almost like they didn't want to give me any recognition because it almost seemed understood that if they were going to terminate someone, I was the first on the scapegoat list.
Now I am guessing their are some out that who think I am exaggerating. If anyone else told me that these things have happened to them and I didn't know any better, I would think they are making it up. The fact is that I am not. Not at all. People talk about morals and ethics in the profession. I sure wished I was ever accorded some.
So my heartfelt advice to the author of the article is do it, else you will get fired, but make sure you have a witness in the room with you, else you may get falsely accused of something you didn't do. Another true story. This other guy I knew was supposed to give a lady partsl suppository. He was working there through an agency. The woman told him she didn't feel comfortable with him doing the procedure, he told the other nurse, she assured him "no problem, I'll do it" (she was on staff). The next day the pool tells him the DON wants to speak with him about the suppository that was never given. He told the DON what happened, of course the staff nurse denied the conversation ever took place, she apparently never did it but lied to cover herself and he got banned from the place for something that was not his fault. So my other advice is if a situation like that occurs, explain to the patient that nurse so in so stated she would do this or that, and document it. Cover yourselves, guys, we are in a hostile environment and it is almost like its open season on us. Discrimination is very much alive and flourishing in this profession.
Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
Am I the only nurse who thinks that gender does matter? What harm does it cause if I choose not to do a procedure when there are capable people around who could do it just as well, plus make it easier for the patient. As a male nurse, I need a female chaperone if doing such a procedure on a woman anyway, so why not make it easier for everyone and simply keep the male out of it altogether?
The biggest issue I see with this is that you are assuming automatically that your female patients would prefer a female nurse. However, have you considered the fact that the patient should have the most input? It seems that you aren't getting that input at all from the person who matters the most.
It's one thing to offer an option and have a patient take you up on it. But what if the patient, who has spent time under your care, would prefer the nurse who has been working with them and developed a professional relationship over a brand new face where that hasn't occurred regardless of the nurse's gender?
Personally, I don't really have a preference for a nurse's gender when providing care (with the exception of being under the care of my coworkers- I did request the only female nurse at that time but that had more to do with having to work with these people after returning to work). I would place much greater emphasis on having developed that professional relationship than what happened to reside beneath the nurse's underwear.
So, in all that rambling, my point is, it's about the patient. Find out what the patient prefers and go from there rather than having a blanket rule that males do this, and females do that.
To the OP I don't think you're crazy or non professional. [i']You are male and when you are standing in front of a lady parts things go off. Because it's hard for you to focus on your primary task which is helping your patient and your body which is built to be stimulated by female sexual parts reacts. I don't think this is unnatural.[/i] The way people who have this tendency deal with it is by intellectualizing or elevating the procedure. Intellectualizing means saying this is a medical procedure and I'm a professional so I'm not allowed to have these thoughts. Elevating the procedure means focusing on the fact that you will alleviate another person's suffering by doing the task or you will help promote their healing. In my opinion it's not wrong to have someone else do the procedure if you aren't in control of your thoughts. In fact it is probably the moral thing to do especially if the person is trusting you to do the procedure on the basis that you are professional. I think women in general while they can be very sexual beings have a slightly lower sexual drive than men. I'm not saying all women, some women. In general, the more you expose yourself to something, the less sensitive you get. The question is: do you want that? Something to think about. I think at the end of the day this all comes down to boundaries and the way you look at your patients.
Forget the OP, this is the creepiest post in the thread. For that matter, it's the creepiest post I've ever read here.
The amount of discrimination us male nurses have to endure is beyond description. It occurs with impunity because we have no protections in place, and when you make such a claim, ridicule is usually the first response. Being a larger guy, who I am told looks mean (I am half blooded Native American), when one of the idiots that have power over me (you know, those lazy do nothing unit managers and DONs and other Nazi types)is under pressure from some other do nothing scumbag that has power over them, they always come after me to make it look like they are really kicking some butt. At one place, I could see from the demeanor of the DON that she was under pressure from the administrator, so I predicted to everyone in that facility "either Robert or I will be fired in less than a week". That time it was Robert, a few years later, it was my turn. If women were treated 1/10th as bad as we are on a routine basis on a male dominated profession, say law enforcement, there would be lawsuits. I would be a millionaire many times over. Yet it continues with impunity...............
That was an interesting read. I'm sorry that happened to you. I am sure men do have a tough time in some places. But I am not sure your situation in the NH was because of a men vs women scenario. It sounded more like just a bunch of *itches that you worked with. Not sure what they had against you, of course. I can tell you it happens to women in NH's and elsewhere too. I think sometimes they don't like people that work too hard. However, I have heard of the "inappropriate" sexual accusations against men from residents in NH's and innocent people get accused and put on suspension without every having done anything. I have a prn job now where a male that is a nurse there asks me do suppositories and such for him.
I think you probably are better off at your current job.
In the UK, procedures like catherisation always require a chaperone whether a female or male nurse is performing it on a male or female patient. It's fine if a patient says they don't want a male nurse performing a certain procedure or a female nurse performing a certain procedure, but I don't think people realise just how much more work this creates for nurses when you have to do someone else's job as well as your own. From this whole dialogue it's come off that you're more uncomfortable doing a catherisation than your female pt's are in getting them done by you. Even the meekest patients will protest certain things in a hospital, and the only time I've ever come across patients saying no to male nurses was if they had religious/cultural differences, which is fine as we'd always find a nurse/HCA for them.
I understand what you mean as nurses our opinions and feelings don't matter over the patients, but in all honesty they don't. Can you imagine the sh*t storm that would occur if I said "I don't feel comfortable touching a patient 'intimately', so I can't wash people anymore", they would throw me out of my course!
I think we as Americans also need to think more cross-culturally. I do find many Americans I have met to be very exclusive, whose attitudes are: if it is not American, than it is beneath them. I think the OP was just trying to point out the background of his nursing experience, and the why behind his questions.
It seems like a number of responses to this thread were attacking the OP personally, rather than professionally, objectively giving experiences as to how to deal with the aforementioned situation. Also, as an outsider reading this thread, yes it would seem very much like Americans are critical and narrow minded.
I am learning about critical thinking. In this situation, posters have jumped on the OP's thinking because it was outside the box of what they are used to. Instead, thinking critically, take a step back and evaluate the situation. Sure, this person has experienced women who may only want female nurses. It is a situation he is wrestling with personally. Fine. That does not in any way make him less of a nurse than you are. It is a different culture; it is not American. There are actually different ways and opinions of nursing in the world!
Then think of how you could respond to this situation outside the box. It would be more professional to offer solutions to the problem, rather than getting rid of the OP as a nurse. We cannot function on: there is a problem, it must be the nurse's fault; if it does not fall in line with what I think, then it is automatically wrong. Instead, what can we do to alleviate or address the problem.
I am just saying this from what I saw. If this is not the message you intended, then please rethink the way you post. I see a problem stated, but few interventions for that problem apart from what the OP has already said. I am told that nursing is teamwork; we need to support and work with each other so that everyone can function to their best ability.
I think we as Americans also need to think more cross-culturally. I do find many Americans I have met to be very exclusive, whose attitudes are: if it is not American, than it is beneath them. I think the OP was just trying to point out the background of his nursing experience, and the why behind his questions.
It seems like a number of responses to this thread were attacking the OP personally, rather than professionally, objectively giving experiences as to how to deal with the aforementioned situation. Also, as an outsider reading this thread, yes it would seem very much like Americans are critical and narrow minded.
I am learning about critical thinking. In this situation, posters have jumped on the OP's thinking because it was outside the box of what they are used to. Instead, thinking critically, take a step back and evaluate the situation. Sure, this person has experienced women who may only want female nurses. It is a situation he is wrestling with personally. Fine. That does not in any way make him less of a nurse than you are. It is a different culture; it is not American. There are actually different ways and opinions of nursing in the world!
Then think of how you could respond to this situation outside the box. It would be more professional to offer solutions to the problem, rather than getting rid of the OP as a nurse. We cannot function on: there is a problem, it must be the nurse's fault; if it does not fall in line with what I think, then it is automatically wrong. Instead, what can we do to alleviate or address the problem.
I am just saying this from what I saw. If this is not the message you intended, then please rethink the way you post. I see a problem stated, but few interventions for that problem apart from what the OP has already said. I am told that nursing is teamwork; we need to support and work with each other so that everyone can function to their best ability.
Teamwork!
So...you cath his female patients and he takes your sinners?
Personally, I think that it is only because women are becoming so masculinized due to feminism that there is such a hostile response. Fifty years ago, it would have been shocking and inappropriate. So many women have lost their sense of modesty and femininity that it does not matter to them anymore. Now, a person like to OP is attacked because he dares to have a different viewpoint.
Fifty years ago, women in the US gave birth with almost exclusively male doctors in attendance, who, as we all know, were digitally examining the woman's cervix throughout the birth process. The male doctor was sitting right in the patient's genital areas while she gave birth. How is it that you don't view what was going on 50 years ago "shocking and inappropriate"? Where was the "sense of modesty and femininity" fifty years ago while male docs inserted their fingers into the woman's lady parts to measure cervical dilitation?
Whether a woman is giving birth or getting a catheter placed, women having procedures involving their genitals with male professionals present has been going on for a long time, and the women in the past were plenty resigned to it just as they are today. I doubt anyone is very thrilled about it whether the attendant is male or female, but pragmatic women have known that sometimes it just has to be done. It has ZERO to do with a loss of "femininity" or women becoming "masculinzed" (sic) due to feminism.
What I was saying was that there seems to be a nonchalant attitude here about this issue. That women don't mind men around them in that way because 'its all professional'. Again, I understand if there is no other option, but if I have my options open, I will choose a female nurse to help me with my personals.
And no, I never could understand why women want a male gynecologist; it does not make sense. Not that there is anything weird going on......but I would not choose it or recommend that plan of action. And yes, fifty years ago, midwifery was also very common. That is actually a field I am very interested in. It's all based on need......there were not an abundance of women doctors then, so by all means a woman should get help no matter what.
What I was saying about femininity.....women are a lot more open with their bodies in the name of science than they used to be. That's all.
needlesandstuff
2 Posts
I have seen a male gyno once in my lifetime and it is not an experience I would like to replay. Specifically, because I found him to be inappropriate. Bad experience all together. Since then I have always requested a female nurse and physician. This is MY personal feeling on the subject. The next woman or man may have different views. I think we should leave it up to the patient, ask him/her what they would prefer before performing a more "intimate" exam.
I do, however, feel that a female nurse should always be present when a man is performing an exam on any woman. And I do not feel that there should be any ageism involved in that matter.