I think I'm professional, but now I'm not so sure, after I told some American friends that as a male nurse, I don't catheterize women.
'That's sexist' was one of the kinder comments, while one of the more rational comments said - "We are professionals. As long as we behave in a professional way, then we should all have to do the same job."
I naturally asked 'does this mean we're nurses first, and men/women second?' and they didn't give a concise answer.
Am I the only male who thinks that it is harder for a female patient as well as for a male nurse to do such an intimate procedure?
Am I the only nurse who thinks that gender does matter? What harm does it cause if I choose not to do a procedure when there are capable people around who could do it just as well, plus make it easier for the patient. As a male nurse, I need a female chaperone if doing such a procedure on a woman anyway, so why not make it easier for everyone and simply keep the male out of it altogether?
But what does being a "Professional" mean? From what I'm hearing from others it sounds like I am a sexless machine capable of doing it all because that is what I am paid to do. Instead I think of myself as a caring carer. I have my faults and biases. I make mistakes and I sometimes let my feelings help make my decisions. But I have a big heart and I do the job because I care first. I enjoy making people laugh when they're sick. I enjoy being able to make a difference in people's lives. I also do the job recognizing my faults, and if I ever think that my views/faults may jeopardize a patient, I know to get someone else to take over that patient's care. I guess I'm not a very successful Sexless Professional. But I can live with being called sexist and unprofessional, just because I sometimes refuse to do female catheterization. I'm sure there's a lot worse things I could be.
A couple of extra points to mention:
For the record, the female staff used to ask me to catheterize the men, and they'd do the same for my female patients, and we never had a problem.
Also it's strange, but apparently I'm allowed to catheterize little old ladies, but not young women. Sounds a bit ageist to me. Do the feelings of older people not matter as much as those of young people? Naturally I'd never contemplate such a procedure on a young woman.
I'm beginning to wonder if my comments are insulting people's egos because they feel that as a professional, they're above such things as gender, and proudly go about doing it all, cause they're super-nurse.
The fact is, the vast majority of women don't want a guy down 'there'.
Men are in a particularly vulnerable position during such procedures.
Many patients don't complain, even when they're uncomfortable.
Many places outside the USA do things differently - this doesn't make either right or wrong.
It is ok for a nurse to choose not to do a procedure. We're not robots, we're human, and a little humanity, compassion and understanding to our colleagues weaknesses and strengths, as well as our patients, creates a much better work environment.
I just wonder what the work dynamic is over there in America? Is there a team spirit, where we know each others' strong points and weaknesses, and we learn to draw on each other to create the best outcome for our patients? Or is everyone so proud of their ability to do it all, to be super nurse, to not need aid, to be able to work a 60hr work week unfazed, to have as much knowledge as the doctor?
Knowing our weaknesses, our limits, and not being afraid to admit them, is vital. I'd rather work with a good nurse who knew their limits and when to get help, as opposed to someone who knows it all, and tries to do it all, and feels unable to get help from those around them.
What is happening to people's compassion when I say there is one procedure, I choose not do?
I had gone three years without ever putting a catheter in a female patient. The majority of it was my own bias/fear. I've finally realized I don't want to be hindered by this fear anymore and have begun to do it on my own.
If a patient requests a female. Sure. Otherwise let's get it done and move on.
You believe that a female should cath a female only yet you as a male are working in an area just for women's health. I'm sorry but I dont understand your logic of working in this area and only wanting to do only part of your job. My advise look for another department yo work in where you are willing and comfortable doing your whole job.
I believe he clarified this earlier. He was accidently placed in this position as a new grad 23 years ago due to an androgenous name. I do not think he is still working there.
The females I work with have no issues doing my female caths, and I gladly do their male ones. It is a team approach so we understand when we ask the other to help when they can.
It is ok for a nurse not to be comfortable doing something.
It is ok for a nurse to choose not to do something.
This does not make them less of a nurse.
Perhaps if nurses showed a bit of compassion to each other, the way we're supposed to be towards our patients, then there wouldn't be a problem.
Yes, it's ok to be uncomfortable. What's not ok is to pawn off your work on others. Unless you're taking the same number of tasks from your female counterparts, you're using your discomfort to get out of work.
I have strong feelings about this because I worked with a male CNA who was incredibly uncomfortable with doing any kind of intimate work with female patients. So much so he made the patients uncomfortable. After a year he finally quit. It's sheer laziness. Part of nursing is seeing people at their most vulnerable both physically and mentally. If you're not prepared to do that, don't go into healthcare.
Don't play the lack of compassion card with those who disagree. It's unseemly.
As a male nurse I've taken care of many females inserting foleys, pericare, and code brown cleanups. If I get a weird vibe from the patient or based on their psyco-social stage I may get a female to assist or perform the procedure. Protect the patient first, but also protect yourself.
It is primarily about the patient but don't assume what the patient wants. I asked an African Muslim pt through her daughter if I could assess/change her peripad after gyn surgery. She said yes and I was as discrete as possible to protect her privacy.
When I delivered her to her medsurg room she shook my hand vigorously and bestowed a blessing on me. She said I should have many grey hairs. She obviously was not traumatized by my care.
It isn't whether you are professional or not, all that really matters is how the patient feels about it. Personally, a male nurse would NOT get to catheterize me, unless I was completely out of it and didn't know! That is just my personal feeling, however, because by nature I am reserved and a little shy. That said, I have mentioned in previous posts that I know several male healthcare workers who were fired because a female patient decided to claim they were inappropriate. This recently happened again at my current facility. The male nurses now have to be accompanied by a female nurse before they can perform any kind of procedure like that on a female patient. That includes urinary caths, enemas, etc.. Yes, the male nurses were ticked off about it, but it protects them from false claims. My male GYN always has his female nurse come into the room when he examines me.
Ifcathing a female patient makes you uncomfortable, you might miss and the patients discomfort would be increased instead of relieving the discomfort. If you were the only nurse that could do it, I am sure you would. A very good rule of thumb is to ask the patient, and go from there. I would ask a nurse who you have done male caths to help you. What is good for one is good for most. Keep in mind that patient's are cathed as a last resort to relieve bladder distention, and believe me, as a person who has been at the other end (as a patient) when you need it done, you don't care who does it; you just need relief!!
Yes, it's ok to be uncomfortable. What's not ok is to pawn off your work on others. Unless you're taking the same number of tasks from your female counterparts, you're using your discomfort to get out of work.
I have strong feelings about this because I worked with a male CNA who was incredibly uncomfortable with doing any kind of intimate work with female patients. So much so he made the patients uncomfortable. After a year he finally quit. It's sheer laziness. Part of nursing is seeing people at their most vulnerable both physically and mentally. If you're not prepared to do that, don't go into healthcare.
Don't play the lack of compassion card with those who disagree. It's unseemly.
I sincerely don't see the female cath delegation a pawning off of work. I don't get angry when asked to lift assist large patients. I'm sorry you worked with a "lazy" male CNA. I am not lazy. I am a bang-up hardworking male RN, and I get shutdown on female catheterization ALL THE TIME by the patients themselves. I'm dumbfounded by your generalizations. You may have gotten a bad vibe by the OP, but now you're judging ME as well based on a CNA you used to work with? Really? I hope you can process the difference and dialogue with me to flush out your biases.
I sincerely don't see the female cath delegation a pawning off of work. I don't get angry when asked to lift assist large patients. I'm sorry you worked with a "lazy" male CNA. I am not lazy. I am a bang-up hardworking male RN, and I get shutdown on female catheterization ALL THE TIME by the patients themselves. I'm dumbfounded by your generalizations. You may have gotten a bad vibe by the OP, but now you're judging ME as well based on a CNA you used to work with? Really? I hope you can process the difference and dialogue with me to flush out your biases.
I thought Aurora77 was responding to OP.
MY problem is not you male nurses who say the patients don't want you. I get that. My problem is the OP saying that because he is a male he shouldn't do it- because of his feelings about it.
I sincerely don't see the female cath delegation a pawning off of work. I don't get angry when asked to lift assist large patients. I'm sorry you worked with a "lazy" male CNA. I am not lazy. I am a bang-up hardworking male RN, and I get shutdown on female catheterization ALL THE TIME by the patients themselves. I'm dumbfounded by your generalizations. You may have gotten a bad vibe by the OP, but now you're judging ME as well based on a CNA you used to work with? Really? I hope you can process the difference and dialogue with me to flush out your biases.
If the shoe fits....
If you're not reciprocating in kind with the staff members cathing your patients, you are getting out of work.
I got a very bad vibe from the OP. No where did I say that male nurses are bad. Maybe you can flush out your biases through our dialogue. :)
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
Wow, I'm wondering if this lack of consideration to gender has to do with being 'professional' or because healthcare is now a business. I also wonder if this is an Americanism. In my time in the UK and New Zealand, there simply wasn't an issue. The guys did the guys, and the women, the women. It worked, it didn't create more work, and no on gave it any thought.
As for the other intimate stuff, we did generally get on with it.
It is ok for a nurse not to be comfortable doing something.
It is ok for a nurse to choose not to do something.
This does not make them less of a nurse.
Perhaps if nurses showed a bit of compassion to each other, the way we're supposed to be towards our patients, then there wouldn't be a problem.
I know you're going to hate me for this, but the attitude I get from the answers here does seem a bit cold. Maybe it's a cultural thing.
The attitude I get from you is a lack of respect and consideration for your US nurse peers. We aren't lacking in consideration toward our patients; we let the patient take the lead when it comes to personal care, and try our best to accommodate their needs.
Again, I think you are sexualizing these personal procedures. At the very least, it's off-putting; at worst it's disturbing.
nursingaround1
247 Posts
I'm beginning to wonder if my comments are insulting people's egos because they feel that as a professional, they're above such things as gender, and proudly go about doing it all, cause they're super-nurse.
The fact is, the vast majority of women don't want a guy down 'there'.
Men are in a particularly vulnerable position during such procedures.
Many patients don't complain, even when they're uncomfortable.
Many places outside the USA do things differently - this doesn't make either right or wrong.
It is ok for a nurse to choose not to do a procedure. We're not robots, we're human, and a little humanity, compassion and understanding to our colleagues weaknesses and strengths, as well as our patients, creates a much better work environment.
I just wonder what the work dynamic is over there in America? Is there a team spirit, where we know each others' strong points and weaknesses, and we learn to draw on each other to create the best outcome for our patients? Or is everyone so proud of their ability to do it all, to be super nurse, to not need aid, to be able to work a 60hr work week unfazed, to have as much knowledge as the doctor?
Knowing our weaknesses, our limits, and not being afraid to admit them, is vital. I'd rather work with a good nurse who knew their limits and when to get help, as opposed to someone who knows it all, and tries to do it all, and feels unable to get help from those around them.
What is happening to people's compassion when I say there is one procedure, I choose not do?