Illegals affect Healthcare?

Long Term Care Columnist / Guide · Aug 30, 2005

I hope this is not an attempt to start an argument.

The subject of illegal immigration is a highly sensitive and potentially explosive one. If we are to debate this issue, let's make it an intelligent and thoughtful one, and avoid labeling human beings as "problems".

Thank you in advance.

Annointed_RNStudent · Aug 30, 2005

I hope this is not an attempt to start an argument.
The subject of illegal immigration is a highly sensitive and potentially explosive one. If we are to debate this issue, let's make it an intelligent and thoughtful one, and avoid labeling human beings as "problems".
Thank you in advance.

I agree, If this is argumentative, let's just stop it, as an argument never seems to produce objective data and or opinions~

I didn't start this thread with that in mind, however I see now how it can be a sticky subject~

SORRY!

William_SRNA · Aug 30, 2005

I agree, If this is argumentative, let's just stop it, as an argument never seems to produce objective data and or opinions~
I didn't start this thread with that in mind, however I see now how it can be a sticky subject~
SORRY!

I think you are starting to see the tide changing with respect to illegal immigration and the costs to this country. There will be action in the next couple of years, I can just about guarantee it.

SmilingBluEyes · Aug 30, 2005

I think from a Homeland Security standpoint, we MUST stem the flow of illegals across our borders----or lose it as a nation.

It's much larger than healthcare.

For example: A huge meth ring was busted today in Tacoma, $ 1000s of meth and cocaine seized. All brought in already processed, ready for use, from Mexico and Guatamala. It's been shown this is a large and dangerous organized crime group with "units" all over the I-5 corridor.

We risk letting in people who would do our nation harm when we can't seem to stop the numbers climbing, swimming, running or being "coyote'd" into our country........

It's a HUGE issue--healthcare is part of it------but---The time has long since come that we need to really control our borders.....

or die as a nation. Our healthcare system will collapse under such weight, it's clear to me.

ShayRN · Aug 30, 2005

I don't think this is too explosive an topic. It is no different than the hypothetical, should we keep a 90 year old vegitative patient on a ventilator, while the resourse could be used elsewhere to prolong life on 6 year old's chemo drugs. This country obviously does not have a bottomless pot of money to keep providing free medical care to the world.

I don't know what the answer is, I really don't. I do know that our healthcare should be free to EVERYONE if it is going to free to some. How is it fair that an illegal alien gets free care, while my elderly patients must choose between their medication, heat or food. I live and work in a old steel mill town. These people worked their entire lives for the promise of pensions and benefits when they retired. Instead, the mills went overseas and their pensions into some fat cat's bank account.

bluesky, BSN, RN · Aug 30, 2005

This is a very complicated subject. To refer to another human being as an "illegal" is really distasteful in my mind. All of the men and women who founded this country weren't U.S. citizens on arrival, do you refer to them as "illegals"? The term is just so inflamatory, as if they have no intrinsic value other than some basic criminality.

My own opinion is that the people who come here come from countries where the hope of a decent life is pretty much nil. For example, my mother and her mother were fortunate enough to arrive on Ellis Island during WWII when they were fleeing Hitler. During this time, the U.S. had a very protectionist immigration policy and most of my grand-mother's friends were denied and died. This experience is in my blood and as a result I cannot bring myself to turn away the many who are truely suffering because of a few bad seeds.

How many of our core values are you going to trade off in the name of "security" before you turn yourself into what amounts to a police state?

SusanJean · Aug 30, 2005

There seems to be no measures to get rid of the illegal immigrants in America, how does this affect hospitals, healthcare workers etc... Are illegal immigrants a problem in the future of healthcare, the shortage of nurses?
Thanks....

People come to this country for a reason. Most illegal immigrants would not be here unless they got something out of it; people hire them and exploit them. Because they are here illegally, they do not seek redress for this (many legal immigrants do not either because they fear authority). Most go without health care until there is a life threatening crisis.

A doctor here set up a system of "free clinics" for anyone who could not afford health care - this includes illegal immigrants - no questions asked. The clinics are run on donations ONLY and are a fantastic resource for the community. I was volunteering at one a number of yrs ago - a woman came in w/ severe 2nd/3rd degree burns on her arms. Seems she was working at a Mexican restaurant and suffered grease burns. She had no benefits, no money - and was fired at the time of the accident. She was suffering horribly and waited days for tx because she was illegal.

I watched this dr. get on the phone, find free meds, tx, and he also reported the restaurant to authorities. (pre HIPAA).

IMO, we should be taking issue w/ the people who hire (and draw/bring) those here illegally, not those coming here to seek a better life. In this country, even the worst conditions are better than what many can afford in their own country. Many put up w/ abuse and the conditions in an attempt to have a better future for their children - they themselves only sacrifice.

I have a friend who is here LEGALLY from India. She comes from money and lived in India w/ servants, many homes and private schools. Yet she choses to live here in a bad area, very small apartment, ride public transportation -- all for the future of her children. The air and water are clean. The education system is good (relatively.) Medical care is available. There are resourses if you need them.

If you have never been to a 3rd world country, or an emerging 3rd world country, you cannot even imagine what everyday circumstances are like. During the adoption of my daughter, I would wake up early - ok, she would wake me up - and I would see dead in the streets...people who just died overnight. Not one or two occasionally, but many, every morning. I would walk down the streets and people would see me w/ a child - and come up and beg me to take their child/children - with tears in their eyes - hoping their children would have a chance, not just at a better life, but LIFE. (At the time I adopted my daughter, infant mortality was 50% by year 5.)

I am only describing the tip of the iceberg as to what I saw...

So, let's not blame the people hoping to improve their lives...

If we want to solve the immigrant problem, look to the employers. IMO, the healthcare problem is being driving by insurance and pharm. companies, for-profit healthcare where gigantic bonuses are given to those that don't even provide health services.

SJ

**RosesrReder, BSN, MSN, RN** · Aug 30, 2005

I think from a Homeland Security standpoint, we MUST stem the flow of illegals across our borders----or lose it as a nation.
It's much larger than healthcare.
For example: A huge meth ring was busted today in Tacoma, $ 1000s of meth and cocaine seized. All brought in already processed, ready for use, from Mexico and Guatamala. It's been shown this is a large and dangerous organized crime group with "units" all over the I-5 corridor.
We risk letting in people who would do our nation harm when we can't seem to stop the numbers climbing, swimming, running or being "coyote'd" into our country........
It's a HUGE issue--healthcare is part of it------but---The time has long since come that we need to really control our borders.....
or die as a nation. Our healthcare system will collapse under such weight, it's clear to me.

I agree, but I would also love to see both borders guarded as equally. For example, for every 1 mile radius there is 5 border patrol officers in the Mexican border but for every 5 mile radius there is only 1 officer in the Canadian border.

My concern is......Who's to say that terrorists will not enter from there. :uhoh3:

**RosesrReder, BSN, MSN, RN** · Aug 30, 2005

I don't think this is too explosive an topic. It is no different than the hypothetical, should we keep a 90 year old vegitative patient on a ventilator, while the resourse could be used elsewhere to prolong life on 6 year old's chemo drugs. This country obviously does not have a bottomless pot of money to keep providing free medical care to the world.
I don't know what the answer is, I really don't. I do know that our healthcare should be free to EVERYONE if it is going to free to some. How is it fair that an illegal alien gets free care, while my elderly patients must choose between their medication, heat or food. I live and work in a old steel mill town. These people worked their entire lives for the promise of pensions and benefits when they retired. Instead, the mills went overseas and their pensions into some fat cat's bank account.

Yes, it is truly unfair. I think we could begin by stop hiring the one's who enter illegaly so they wouldn't have the need to come here in the first place. Or atleast limit that. But until the one's who continue to support illegal immigration for their lucrative means cease to.......they will find any possible way to get here.

Aside from the already dent put into our healthcare, we are spending so much $$ sending them back. I mean the one's who are from Central and South America for example must be flown back rather than escorted back to the border. Unecessary expense IMO, if we stop the hiring, find a better solution to put a filter in our borders (equally), then we would be saving all this money and hopefully used for healthcare. :)

**RosesrReder, BSN, MSN, RN** · Aug 30, 2005

This is a very complicated subject. To refer to another human being as an "illegal" is really distasteful in my mind. All of the men and women who founded this country weren't U.S. citizens on arrival, do you refer to them as "illegals"? The term is just so inflamatory, as if they have no intrinsic value other than some basic criminality.
My own opinion is that the people who come here come from countries where the hope of a decent life is pretty much nil. For example, my mother and her mother were fortunate enough to arrive on Ellis Island during WWII when they were fleeing Hitler. During this time, the U.S. had a very protectionist immigration policy and most of my grand-mother's friends were denied and died. This experience is in my blood and as a result I cannot bring myself to turn away the many who are truely suffering because of a few bad seeds.
How many of our core values are you going to trade off in the name of "security" before you turn yourself into what amounts to a police state?

I agree with you but also understand that this was many moons ago. Your grandparents and mine more than likely came with the intentions of building a foundation, staying and becoming part of the country.

Nowdays, most IMO come here with the sole intention of working, working, working, and sending it all back to their respective countries and then going back. Meanwhile a whole new group is starting the never ending cycle.

I think also that when you don't have any intention of giving up your country for this one, you can't care much about it. To some it is just a way to find green and take off. Some do try to do things the right and legal way and desire to stay here and adopt our country.

Trauma Columnist · Aug 30, 2005

Here in the midwest, we have few illegals so that is not our problem with the overcrowding of our ER's. However, the issue has become that the uninsured can't get healthcare - where legal or illegal. It has become a huge issue - we have no one at the moment who will take on new uninsured patients. It is becoming an epidemic. So, I feel that our healthcare system as a whole needs an overhaul.