Am I reading this right? The bill is SB 1159, which looks like it passed to me when I look it up on the California legislature website -- with the following language:
When did I say that laws should be disregard or not enforced?
And if calling bull-pucky on untruths and distortions presented as "facts" equals telling the opposition to shut up, then doesn't that imply that the opposition needs to examine those "facts"?
I'm sorry if my viewpoint upsets you or makes you uncomfortable. It makes me uncomfortable, too. Which is why I have to decline to join the ain't-it-awful chorus. I live in a border state, my son and his family live in another. I see it as a matter of survival to come up with reality-based and effective solutions that are consistent with my principles as an American.
Look, I was responding to the meme and to part of your post. That meme--and the appropriation of the Native American experience to shut down opposition--grates on me. Otherwise, I would not have said anything.
I am sorry, but even though Illegal ALIENS, do pay some taxes, the amount that they pay, pales in comparison to the amount of the social services money, welfare, food stamps, Section 8 housing, medical care, free K-12, public education,etc that they take and obtain.
These above services amount in the BILLIONS, of taxpayer money that is being used to benefit individuals who either snuck into this country, overstayed Visas, whatever.
I am sure that there were illegal aliens who somehow managed to escape Ellis Island, and sneak into the country. HOWEVER, these individuals took care of themselves and their families, did not require bilingual education, and I am pretty sure that the American Government, did not provide bilingual education services in English and Italian, or German, or French, etc.They also did not accept non stop social services, from the taxpayers. And they also did not come into this country in the hordes, that are just walking across the border to get here. There was an ocean that had to be crossed by ocean liners, that took months to get here, not hours by jet plane.
When my grandmother immigrated here, she was only 7 years old. At the time in Italy, children did not start school until they were 7. Because they were in the process of getting ready to immigrate to America, my great grand parents, did not enroll her in school in Italy.
After they got here, because she did not speak English, even though, by age, she should have been put into the second grade, the school just put her in the First Grade, instead. And like most immigrants at the time, by immersion in the public school system, she learned English, on her own. No bilingual classes, no signs in English and Italian, no bilingual textbooks, etc. no bilingual teachers, no government notices in English and Italian. You learned English, or you did not succeed in America. Period.
Contrast that to today. EVERYTHING is written in English and Spanish. You cannot call any agency and just get a recorded message in English. Hence, "press 1 for English, 2 for Spanish", etc. Children are taught in Spanish, not in English, everywhere that the adults go, signs, and forms are written in Spanish. WHY?? This is America, and WE speak English! There are adults who have been in this country for over 20 years, and still cannot speak English.
This is all costing taxpayers BILLIONS, and no, even though they pay a miniscule amount of taxes on their minimum wage jobs, or in other way taxes are collected (sales tax, for example), or no taxes at all, because they are paid under the table, these people take far more in services than they will EVER pay in taxes. If I do a Google search, I would be happy to get you the exact amount of money that illegal ALIENS, cost the taxpayers of this country.
And lets not forget the anchor babies, that also get everything for free, and/or, allow their parents to obtain these free services. And who can sponsor their parents for citizenship when they turn 18.
If you want to continue to believe the fairy tale, that illegal ALIENS, somehow pay their way, and are not a severe drain on this country, and attempt to compare present immigrants in the 18th and 19th century, and early 20th century, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I would be happy to sell you.
And as for the Native Americans, again, yes, I am sorry about what happened when the white men came over here. Again you are comparing apples to oranges, when you are applying 21st Century values, and social norms to 17th, 18th, 19th centuries societal norms. You are in la la land, if your believe that any other culture that landed here, would not have done the same. And for genocide, the Native Americans, were not exactly the most hospitable and kind, to members of other tribes. They were just as cruel, and cutthroat, as anyone, YOU need to read the history books.
We also have documented water shortage, especially in California, and the western state, we are losing thousands of acres of arable land to house tracts, to accommodate a larger populations, we are putting a huge strain on all of our natural resources, etc. We do not have the wide open spaces that we had even 100 years ago. Out of control immigration, and the much higher birthrate of illegal alien women, have changed that, and our cities are breaking at the seams.
And again, so you really believe that the North American Continent would have remained undiscovered forever? I know that Native Americans would burn all Italians at the stake for being of the same nationality as Christopher Columbus, if they could. The Native Americans suffered the same fate of indigenous people all over the world. That was the unfortunate reality of the past. Nothing what we can do will change that. Blaming people for what happened 400 years ago, will never change that. Nor will re -writing history.
And the claim that my grandparents were still guilty of genocide, because they benefitted from the development of this country, also does not hold water either. They knew nothing of the Native Americans when they immigrated here, nor the fate that they encountered, after the while man came here, and took over the country. A stronger, and more sophisticated group, took over. Has happened since the beginning of time. Get over it.
MANDATORY E VERIFY, LEGAL RESIDENCE TO OBTAIN ANY SOCIAL SERVICES, NO INCREASE IN SERVICES IF YOU CONTINUE TO DROP ANCHOR BABIES EVERY YEAR, NO FREE K-12 PUBLIC EDUCATION- YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN TO PAY, EDUCATE, AND CARE FOR THEM.
Eliminate the things that bring them here, and DEPORT, DEPORT, DEPORT. Take pictures of each one, fingerprints, obtain DNA, and DEPORT!
PS- my Grandfather's favorite TV shows were all of the cowboys and Indians shows, Westerns, etc. Gunsmoke, Bonanza, etc. I guess since that was a genre, that was not available in Italy, it fascinated him. RIP Grandpa!
JMHO and my NY $0.02
Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN (ret)
Somewhere in the PACNW
Oh....where to start.....
....nah, not worth it today...
Today I'll just love on the (hard-working self-employed, insured, English-speaking, taxpaying) illegal ALIEN (ZOMG DRAIN ON SOCIETY!) that I'm married to and the gifted-class anchor babies I've managed to crank out every six years.
As Grandma used to say, living well is the best revenge.
I am sorry, but even though Illegal ALIENS, do pay some taxes, the amount that they pay, pales in comparison to the amount of the social services money, welfare, food stamps, Section 8 housing, medical care, free K-12, public education,etc that they take and obtain.
These above services amount in the BILLIONS, of taxpayer money that is being used to benefit individuals who either snuck into this country, overstayed Visas, whatever....
If illegal immigrants were actually allowed to collect welfare, food stamps, medicaid, etc then I would absolutely agree with you, but they aren't actually allowed access to any of those services (despite what "forward this email to all your friends" sources might claim).
That doesn't mean they still can't be a drain on our economy, which is why I don't understand the desire to prevent them from being able to contribute, rather than be a drain on the system. So why would you prefer that they be preventing from actually contributing? It's always been my expectation that contributing is exactly what immigrants should be expected to do, how is it better to prevent them from contributing?
That doesn't mean they still can't be a drain on our economy, which is why I don't understand the desire to prevent them from being able to contribute, rather than be a drain on the system. So why would you prefer that they be preventing from actually contributing? It's always been my expectation that contributing is exactly what immigrants should be expected to do, how is it better to prevent them from contributing?
Because they are here ILLEGALLY, and they are "contributing" in violation of our immigration and employment laws -- how hard is that to comprehend??
Illegal Aliens may not be able to receive welfare, and other services, but their, AMERICAN BORN ANCHOR BABY CHILDREN, CAN!
That is why in addition to what I wrote above, changing the, "magnets", that draw them here, one of the most important, that needs to be revoked, is Birthright Citizenship, and Chain Migration.
Revoking these, along with mandatory E verify, would go along way to stopping illegal immigration. It is long overdue.
I am sorry, but even though Illegal ALIENS, do pay some taxes, the amount that they pay, pales in comparison to the amount of the social services money, welfare, food stamps, Section 8 housing, medical care, free K-12, public education,etc that they take and obtain.
These above services amount in the BILLIONS, of taxpayer money that is being used to benefit individuals who either snuck into this country, overstayed Visas, whatever.
I am sure that there were illegal aliens who somehow managed to escape Ellis Island, and sneak into the country. HOWEVER, these individuals took care of themselves and their families, did not require bilingual education, and I am pretty sure that the American Government, did not provide bilingual education services in English and Italian, or German, or French, etc.They also did not accept non stop social services, from the taxpayers. And they also did not come into this country in the hordes, that are just walking across the border to get here. There was an ocean that had to be crossed by ocean liners, that took months to get here, not hours by jet plane.
When my grandmother immigrated here, she was only 7 years old. At the time in Italy, children did not start school until they were 7. Because they were in the process of getting ready to immigrate to America, my great grand parents, did not enroll her in school in Italy.
After they got here, because she did not speak English, even though, by age, she should have been put into the second grade, the school just put her in the First Grade, instead. And like most immigrants at the time, by immersion in the public school system, she learned English, on her own. No bilingual classes, no signs in English and Italian, no bilingual textbooks, etc. no bilingual teachers, no government notices in English and Italian. You learned English, or you did not succeed in America. Period.
Contrast that to today. EVERYTHING is written in English and Spanish. You cannot call any agency and just get a recorded message in English. Hence, "press 1 for English, 2 for Spanish", etc. Children are taught in Spanish, not in English, everywhere that the adults go, signs, and forms are written in Spanish. WHY?? This is America, and WE speak English! There are adults who have been in this country for over 20 years, and still cannot speak English.
This is all costing taxpayers BILLIONS, and no, even though they pay a miniscule amount of taxes on their minimum wage jobs, or in other way taxes are collected (sales tax, for example), or no taxes at all, because they are paid under the table, these people take far more in services than they will EVER pay in taxes. If I do a Google search, I would be happy to get you the exact amount of money that illegal ALIENS, cost the taxpayers of this country.
And lets not forget the anchor babies, that also get everything for free, and/or, allow their parents to obtain these free services. And who can sponsor their parents for citizenship when they turn 18.
If you want to continue to believe the fairy tale, that illegal ALIENS, somehow pay their way, and are not a severe drain on this country, and attempt to compare present immigrants in the 18th and 19th century, and early 20th century, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I would be happy to sell you.
And as for the Native Americans, again, yes, I am sorry about what happened when the white men came over here. Again you are comparing apples to oranges, when you are applying 21st Century values, and social norms to 17th, 18th, 19th centuries societal norms. You are in la la land, if your believe that any other culture that landed here, would not have done the same. And for genocide, the Native Americans, were not exactly the most hospitable and kind, to members of other tribes. They were just as cruel, and cutthroat, as anyone, YOU need to read the history books.
We also have documented water shortage, especially in California, and the western state, we are losing thousands of acres of arable land to house tracts, to accommodate a larger populations, we are putting a huge strain on all of our natural resources, etc. We do not have the wide open spaces that we had even 100 years ago. Out of control immigration, and the much higher birthrate of illegal alien women, have changed that, and our cities are breaking at the seams.
And again, so you really believe that the North American Continent would have remained undiscovered forever? I know that Native Americans would burn all Italians at the stake for being of the same nationality as Christopher Columbus, if they could. The Native Americans suffered the same fate of indigenous people all over the world. That was the unfortunate reality of the past. Nothing what we can do will change that. Blaming people for what happened 400 years ago, will never change that. Nor will re -writing history.
And the claim that my grandparents were still guilty of genocide, because they benefitted from the development of this country, also does not hold water either. They knew nothing of the Native Americans when they immigrated here, nor the fate that they encountered, after the while man came here, and took over the country. A stronger, and more sophisticated group, took over. Has happened since the beginning of time. Get over it.
MANDATORY E VERIFY, LEGAL RESIDENCE TO OBTAIN ANY SOCIAL SERVICES, NO INCREASE IN SERVICES IF YOU CONTINUE TO DROP ANCHOR BABIES EVERY YEAR, NO FREE K-12 PUBLIC EDUCATION- YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN TO PAY, EDUCATE, AND CARE FOR THEM.
Eliminate the things that bring them here, and DEPORT, DEPORT, DEPORT. Take pictures of each one, fingerprints, obtain DNA, and DEPORT!
PS- my Grandfather's favorite TV shows were all of the cowboys and Indians shows, Westerns, etc. Gunsmoke, Bonanza, etc. I guess since that was a genre, that was not available in Italy, it fascinated him. RIP Grandpa!
JMHO and my NY $0.02
Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN (ret)
Somewhere in the PACNW
There are so many fallacies and inaccuracies in this post. I can't imagine how someone with such strong opinions on the subject would not be at all interested in knowing what benefits immigrants actually can and cannot receive, what contributions the majority of immigrants make, or even how most really get here (it's so much more dangerous than just walking across the border). I guess you really can't argue with ignorance.
Actually, I think it's an artificially exaggerated controversy meant to soften us up for a proposal to end birthright citizenship. a whole other discussion...
I can see it now: a bunch of anchor babies and descendants of anchor babies complaining that those other anchor babies over there are cheating and shouldn't be allowed to happen.
Of course, it couldn't possibly be motivated by the fact that the Caucasian majority won't be, sometime this century. This, of course, pretty much dooms the dream of a permanent Republican majority so dear to the hearts (such as they are) of certain neocon powers-that-be. They're absolutely terrified that poor, working class and minority citizens might actually turn out to vote in proportion to their actual numbers.
Actually, I think it's an artificially exaggerated controversy meant to soften us up for a proposal to end birthright citizenship. a whole other discussion...
I can see it now: a bunch of anchor babies and descendants of anchor babies complaining that those other anchor babies over there are cheating and shouldn't be allowed to happen.
Of course, it couldn't possibly be motivated by the fact that the Caucasian majority won't be, sometime this century. This, of course, pretty much dooms the dream of a permanent Republican majority so dear to the hearts (such as they are) of certain neocon powers-that-be. They're absolutely terrified that poor, working class and minority citizens might actually turn out to vote in proportion to their actual numbers.
People ... you're being had.
I would be delighted to see birthright citizenship eliminated. It's a shame that it would take a constitutional amendment. I think citizenship should limited to those with at least one parent who is a citizen or legal resident. However, I am not a Republican and my opinions about this have nothing to do with any individual's nationality or ethnic origins or the ethnic makeup of the US population. It makes no difference to me whether an illegal is a general laborer who crossed the border from Mexico or a European tourist or professional who has overstayed her/his visa. My only concern is the legal status of the individual. Your stereotypes and preconceptions are not necessarily valid, either.
Your stereotypes and preconceptions are not necessarily valid, either.
Stereotypes and preconceptions?
This is my reality. For some people these are (clearly) stereotypes and preconceptions, but this is what I live every single day. I will not ask for forgiveness should I find myself annoyed when people miscategorize and vilify my husband, children, and friends.
If you're going to support revocation of birthright citizenship, support revoking it for everyone who cannot prove that a) every single one of their ancestors came here legally AND respected the governments of those already living here, or b) their ancestors were brought here by force. While it would still IMO be disagreeable, it would at the very least be intellectually honest.
However, I am not a Republican and my opinions about this have nothing to do with any individual's nationality or ethnic origins or the ethnic makeup of the US population.
Are you saying Republicans oppose illegal immigration because they're racist?
Are you saying Republicans oppose illegal immigration because they're racist?
No, I'm not -- I was responding to Heron's comments suggesting that racial concerns are behind Republican concerns about illegal immigration, and pointing out that I don't fit her stereotype.
heron, ASN, RN
4,653 Posts
When did I say that laws should be disregard or not enforced?
And if calling bull-pucky on untruths and distortions presented as "facts" equals telling the opposition to shut up, then doesn't that imply that the opposition needs to examine those "facts"?
I'm sorry if my viewpoint upsets you or makes you uncomfortable. It makes me uncomfortable, too. Which is why I have to decline to join the ain't-it-awful chorus. I live in a border state, my son and his family live in another. I see it as a matter of survival to come up with reality-based and effective solutions that are consistent with my principles as an American.
So ... carry on.