Um... where are all those valiant defenders of ObamaCare that were here a year ago? Totally flaming anyone who dared to have any doubts about how Democrat promises square with reality.
Debacle.
Train wreck.
Disaster.
Total fail.
Incomprehensible.
Illogical.
Impossible.
Unrealistic.
Just some of the adjectives applied to the roll out by radical Tea Party news outlets like the Washington Post and the New York Times, CBS and NBC.
Here is how one sees the whole mess. Obama and the Democrats set up something that the United States government rarely does well; a large nationwide program that tweaks, uses carrots and sticks, and or otherwise relies heavily on having more of the same, that is private insurance companies basically controlling healthcare.
Those whom are very ill, with previous existing conditions and so forth come out the better in this plan, whilst everyone else is going to have to give up something (some more than others), including the requirement for young and or healthy persons purchase insurance or pay a *fine*. The last bit is yet another way of wealth redistribution, social engineering or what have you but just like SSA the United States again is asking the young to subsidize others. If not enough nil to low health insurance users sign up there is going to be trouble.
It seems odd that after living through one of the worse economic disasters since the Great Depression brought about largely by financial markets, we are now supposed to trust another (healthcare) to delivery us from the current state of affairs.
The NYT has been running interesting series of articles over the past year regarding healthcare in the United States. A few weeks ago it covered asthma and the *VERY* high cost of meds and other treatments in the United States versus other Western nations. Inhalers you can purchase in France over the counter for as little as $4 to $40 United States Dollars cost three or more times that amount here in the states. Indeed many EU countries not only make certain asthma medications available OTC but will *give* them away if necessary. This is done because government health policy realizes the most cost effective way to treat asthma is to give persons access to their meds/treatments so they can manage the disease.
The "Silver Plus" plan has no deductible. The "Silver Saver" has a $1000/$2000 ind/fam deductible but with lower premiums. They even have a bronze plan with a $200/$500 deductible.
I have insurance and if my husbands gets canceled I have medicare....my findings were different. Your link shows no prices....however it is for subsided premiums and/or Masshealth/welfare programs...which I do not qualify.
No one has addressed those who have no extra money and are now mandated to pull it out of thin air to pay a premium or pay a penalty...either way they will have to find money they don't have. where is the affordable in that ?
I will continue to disagree and you will continue to prove me wrong. I bow out gracefully. I don't have the energy to keep in the game.
Time will tell the story....history will tell the rest.
Here is how one sees the whole mess. Obama and the Democrats set up something that the United States government rarely does well; a large nationwide program that tweaks, uses carrots and sticks, and or otherwise relies heavily on having more of the same, that is private insurance companies basically controlling healthcare.
Those whom are very ill, with previous existing conditions and so forth come out the better in this plan, whilst everyone else is going to have to give up something (some more than others), including the requirement for young and or healthy persons purchase insurance or pay a *fine*. The last bit is yet another way of wealth redistribution, social engineering or what have you but just like SSA the United States again is asking the young to subsidize others. If not enough nil to low health insurance users sign up there is going to be trouble.
It seems odd that after living through one of the worse economic disasters since the Great Depression brought about largely by financial markets, we are now supposed to trust another (healthcare) to delivery us from the current state of affairs.
The NYT has been running interesting series of articles over the past year regarding healthcare in the United States. A few weeks ago it covered asthma and the *VERY* high cost of meds and other treatments in the United States versus other Western nations. Inhalers you can purchase in France over the counter for as little as $4 to $40 United States Dollars cost three or more times that amount here in the states. Indeed many EU countries not only make certain asthma medications available OTC but will *give* them away if necessary. This is done because government health policy realizes the most cost effective way to treat asthma is to give persons access to their meds/treatments so they can manage the disease.
". I will be paying for my meds for the rest of my life! I could take the easy way out and sit on my orifice and let everybody else pay for my meds, rent and bills, but I thought that was the reason I was paying national insurance and income tax! i want to work!"
" In the past, I've had to ration inhalers because I couldn't afford to get another one."
"user199133 i totally agree i am also asthmatic and dont teceive free prescriptions. i was born with it not my fault.yet a friend who has type2 diabetes which if he was to lose weight he would no longer have and he gets free prescription"
I have insurance and if my husbands gets canceled I have medicare....my findings were different. Your link shows no prices....however it is for subsided premiums and/or Masshealth/welfare programs...which I do not qualify.
These were "Commonwealth Choice" plans which are not subsidized, the subsidized plans are under MassHealth. Access to your state's exchange site is limited to residents, but you can also get a general idea by using the Kaiser calculator.
No one has addressed those who have no extra money and are now mandated to pull it out of thin air to pay a premium or pay a penalty...either way they will have to find money they don't have. where is the affordable in that ?
I agree it's possible for even a millionaire to have no "extra" money, but not everyone can be subsidized. Our healthcare costs a fixed amount, everyone has a certain share of that amount. We help some people pay their share so that they don't have to pay the full amount, it's simply not possible to allow everyone to pay less than their share, and still end up with the full amount healthcare costs.
Our healthcare system is extremely expensive and since we can't give subsidies to everyone, we give priority to those who make less, that doesn't mean you have to be officially "poor" to get a subsidy however, you can make up to 4 times the poverty level and still get a subsidy, which is generous, but at some point people have to cover their full share. How do suggest we give subsidies to everyone?
Frankly Obamacare is turning out to have many negative consequences and details in the law that hurt people even with insurance. So many negatives where to even start, people getting their insurance cancelled and new rates skyrocketing. Huge deductibles for these expensive premiums, decreasing the FSA to only $2500, giving the companies the go ahead to force the wellness programs with up to 30% penalties for those who don't meet proper bloodwork, weight and BMI and increasing smokers premiums to 50% more! Add to that all the companies that are pushing workers to part-time rather pay for insurance, forcing retirees of both cities and companies onto the individual market place! I could go on and on! It is a huge disappointment! The only ones that can afford healthcare are those lucky enough to get medicaid, even medicare costs hundreds in premiums a month! Obamacare is a joke and yet another tax on the working class & middle class! Only the poor that get medicaid benefit from this plan! The rest of us are getting ripped off and will be paying taxes to support medicaid and the insurance subsidies for the poor! My premiums are doubling and my plan has thousands out of pocket. The only way to save money is to be forced into the high deductible plan which is a joke on the American people and isn't even real insurance because you lose such basic things as prescription coverage and office visits. Thanks a lot for nothing!
Everyday we deal with poor people who come into the hospital at the drop of the hat frequently and they don't have to pay anything! Many are just drug seekers coming in for their next high and here healthcare workers have such crappy insurance we can't afford to go to the hospital or have surgeries ourselves! Then because the hospital self-insures they can skirt the laws and provide even less coverage for their employees! Frankly the medicaid people get better health benefits than the rest of us that actually work for a living! It is just pathetic!
Everybody can have big expenses. The question is should a family making $40,000 be subsidizing the health care of a family making $90,000/year?
Previously, a family making $40,000 might have healthcare through their employer and might be contributing $16,000/year in total to keep our healthcare system funded. While a family making $90,000 might not have a plan at all, after all why should they, their legally guaranteed care for anything "big", and if the bills were big enough, they could just declare bankruptcy, which is one reason why the $40,000/year family is paying $16,000 for insurance.
I'm on the other side of it, so to say. And it may not be a popular opinion but...
I am in my 20s, am of normal weight, eat well, exercise, have excellent lab numbers, etc. My husband... 8-9% body fat, very healthy, works out, eats whatever I fix :) Neither one of us take ANY prescription medication. We both have seen one doctor in the last year, for well exams. We spend $150-200/month on health insurance. I have *excellent* health insurance. My highest copay is for ER and $150 (I think). We both qualify for discounts due to BMI and lab work.
I checked healthcare.gov, and the lowest rate we could get was an HMO, about $500/month would cover 60% of costs AFTER the deductible, that they wouldn't list.
This isn't fair either. I have not used a DIME in healthcare money this year. How is $500/month fair for us either? We don't have that kind of money. We make GOOD money, but we have a mortgage, two car payments, insurance, bills, student loans, credit card debt, and taxes (lots of taxes it feels like). And I would say we manage our money pretty well. Would I expect to have insurance as good as what I have now? No. But paying $6,000 a year (plus what we would pay towards our deductible) isn't fair either. We've never had costs high enough to meet our deductible (back when we had one). I'm subsidizing someone else's costs, and to some extent that's ok. But there's a limit.
We make our bills, save money for emergencies, pay down our debt, pay towards our retirement, etc. We aren't sitting around with a lot of extra left over. We've been able to and blessed to do really well, even though we lost $20,000 on the house we finally gave up and sold last year. My friends who have received cancellation notices have been shocked by what their choices are. I hope this plan helps someone, and thankfully it doesn't effect me at the moment, but that doesn't mean it won't, and none of my friends who have had to shop for ACA compliant plans have been terribly happy with the results.
Here's and excerpt from an article written by one of my favorite economists and businessmen, Peter Schiff:
"...the ACA makes it illegal for insurance providers to deny coverage to anyone for any reason. This allows healthy people to drop insurance until they actually need it without incurring any risk. It's like allowing homeowners to buy fire insurance after their houses burn down. To counteract these new free-rider incentives, the law imposes "no insurance" penalties (also defined as taxes by the Supreme Court). The problem is that these "penaltaxes" (for lack of a better word) are insufficient to the task. In fact, Chief Justice John Roberts ruled the law constitutional precisely because the burdens were not high enough to compel behavior. (In other words, he thought the law was constitutional because it will be ineffective.) The numbers support his arguments."
He goes on about how the "penaltaxes" work, and how the opt-outers won't have to pay them unless the IRS garnishes the funds from their federal income tax refund check. Apparently, this is the only way they can recover the "penaltax" from the people who refuse to pay it.
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
I have insurance....if not I'd have medicare. I am ill myself. The ACA doesn't apply to me...at least I pray it won't for I can little afford it....I just don't think this is a cure to the problem. I don't think it helps anyone. Just my opinion. I'm not hostile. I have no reason to be. Just because I disagree doesn't mean I am being hostile.
A favorite quote......"Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted".......Ralph Waldo Emerson
I am sorry you are unwell...((HUGS))
When someone replies to me with giant font and all caps, it gives me the impression I am being shouted at. Sorry if I was mistaken. I have no persecution complex.
My point still remains: if you went on Medicare, since you have a qualifying condition, your coverage would be cheaper, and most likely your family could get a cheaper plan through your husband's employer.
I went on MC effective last month. Thanks to it, I can see the specialist I need to see, without paying an arm, leg and half my torso that insurance would cost. When you need to go to a "super-specialist" who is OON for your insurance, it becomes simply unaffordable.
Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
These were "Commonwealth Choice" plans which are not subsidized, the subsidized plans are under MassHealth. Access to your state's exchange site is limited to residents, but you can also get a general idea by using the Kaiser calculator.
I agree it's possible for even a millionaire to have no "extra" money, but not everyone can be subsidized. Our healthcare costs a fixed amount, everyone has a certain share of that amount. We help some people pay their share so that they don't have to pay the full amount, it's simply not possible to allow everyone to pay less than their share, and still end up with the full amount healthcare costs.
Our healthcare system is extremely expensive and since we can't give subsidies to everyone, we give priority to those who make less, that doesn't mean you have to be officially "poor" to get a subsidy however, you can make up to 4 times the poverty level and still get a subsidy, which is generous, but at some point people have to cover their full share. How do suggest we give subsidies to everyone?
Frankly I think stopping the abuse, and initiate control, of the present system would go a long way.
Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
When someone replies to me with giant font and all caps, it gives me the impression I am being shouted at. Sorry if I was mistaken. I have no persecution complex.
My point still remains: if you went on Medicare, since you have a qualifying condition, your coverage would be cheaper, and most likely your family could get a cheaper plan through your husband's employer.
I went on MC effective last month. Thanks to it, I can see the specialist I need to see, without paying an arm, leg and half my torso that insurance would cost. When you need to go to a "super-specialist" who is OON for your insurance, it becomes simply unaffordable.
I am outraged and I was shouting...however not at you....it's just another government fisaco and lies telling us how fortunate we are and how grateful we should be. If it's such a great benefit...I suggest they all on Capitol Hill join as well. Why are they exempt?
Again...I have insurance....a PPO. My worry wasn't about me...it's all the other people less fortunate than I.
What a bunch of hogwash. Ain't no half people going to loose their insurance. And the current people who the GOP claims have lost their insurance, aren't saying the whole truth that the policies are being replaced not cancelled altogether.
the otherside keeps wanting to make government smaller
Want to get rid of big government...let's look at big government systems
let someone in the senate put up a bill to end Medicare...anyone who does that will commit political suicide.
let someone in the senate put up a bill to end public education and privatize all our education...anyone who does that will commit political suicide.
let someone in the senate put up a bill to shutdown the USPS and i don't know privatize them to fedex or whoever...anyone who does that will commit political suicide.
let someone in the senate put up a bill to get rid of the biggest socialist system, social security...anyone who does that will commit political suicide.
Simple fact is Americans want better, ok so Obamacare has it quirks, no newly implemented system is without quirks...but remember this was NOT the plan Obama had in the first place...his plan was to follow Mitt Romney to have Universal healthcare across the country. Mitt Romney knows his plan worked and it could work for the whole country. But no they voted it down, So now we getting a watered down plan because Obama made a lot of compromises after being held hostage to several threats of government shutdown, 1 actual shutdown and now the same fools who asked for those compromises and criticizing the changes.
I agree Voters want more, 49% of Americans get assistance from the government the trouble is when more people are collecting then putting in how is this process going to be sustained. when will the treasury run dry? Knowing that the U S government is close to default it could. Be happening soon. where will Healthcare be when more are taking then putting in.
I was thinking about applying for another position and my husband said why bother it will go to taxes. I personally get sick of paying more taxes.Looking at the UK the NHS system does not look nurse or patient friendly. everyone will get coverage with lots of strings attached.
My big beef is that all the politicians and unions have ensured they opt out of the system, why would they do that if the system is so good.
DoGoodThenGo
4,133 Posts
Here is how one sees the whole mess. Obama and the Democrats set up something that the United States government rarely does well; a large nationwide program that tweaks, uses carrots and sticks, and or otherwise relies heavily on having more of the same, that is private insurance companies basically controlling healthcare.
Those whom are very ill, with previous existing conditions and so forth come out the better in this plan, whilst everyone else is going to have to give up something (some more than others), including the requirement for young and or healthy persons purchase insurance or pay a *fine*. The last bit is yet another way of wealth redistribution, social engineering or what have you but just like SSA the United States again is asking the young to subsidize others. If not enough nil to low health insurance users sign up there is going to be trouble.
It seems odd that after living through one of the worse economic disasters since the Great Depression brought about largely by financial markets, we are now supposed to trust another (healthcare) to delivery us from the current state of affairs.
The NYT has been running interesting series of articles over the past year regarding healthcare in the United States. A few weeks ago it covered asthma and the *VERY* high cost of meds and other treatments in the United States versus other Western nations. Inhalers you can purchase in France over the counter for as little as $4 to $40 United States Dollars cost three or more times that amount here in the states. Indeed many EU countries not only make certain asthma medications available OTC but will *give* them away if necessary. This is done because government health policy realizes the most cost effective way to treat asthma is to give persons access to their meds/treatments so they can manage the disease.