I didn't become a nurse to feed people's addictions. Do *nurses* have the right to refuse

Nurses Relations

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(Disclaimer: So this turned out to be longer than I thought it would, and a bit of a rant. Sorry! But I think this is something that's relevant to all of us).

Some background: I work in a combined med surg ward, so we see a bit of everything. We have a young-ish girl, in her twenties, that has a VAC dressing in her leg following very deep self harm about two weeks ago. Her drug use has also given her 'meth mouth', and she's had at least one tooth removed about a week ago as well.

The issue is that she has a personality disorder, a history of aggression, is a known drug seeker and has had to have her VAC replaced twice now because she keeps sabotaging it - picking at it, poking and playing with it. Before it was put in she was seen physically pulling the edges of the wound apart with her hands also. She demands morphine roughly every hour for "ten out of ten" pain even though you can clearly see that she's not distressed in any way. She is charted for PRN morph and fentanyl, subcut (not allowed to have a cannula).

We always hear about the patients right to refuse; surely nurses have some way of objecting in a situation like this? Panadol (Tylenol), anti-inflammatories and endone all "don't do anything", even though it barely gets to two minutes after giving these before she buzzes and asks for "something better".

It's ridiculous; the patient knows she's playing us for fools and has said as much. Surely there comes a point where enough is enough and we stop giving in to people, especially people who don't want to help themselves. No wonder the state health system I work in is broke; It frustrates me to no end when we can't even afford more then one obs machine on the ward between thirty two patients, yet we will hand out expensive treatments to people who clearly don't want to get 'better', and dole out morphine like it's soda.

I know we need to cover pain relief somehow; I'm aware that vac dressings can be painful. But it's not like she can say we're not giving her anything at all. What are our options here? I'm not the only one with the same concern.

Sincerely, nurse who didn't become a nurse to be a drug dealer.

*edited for spelling.

Specializes in Hospice / Psych / RNAC.
Thanks to everyone who replied, but I'm done with this thread. I hoped to actually have a reasonable discussion, but I can see that just isn't possible here.

You didn't like what you heard so now you're done. If you really feel this way why in the world are you working there?

People have no idea how their nonverbal behavior affects people around them. I can just see you sitting on your I'm so clean and respectable high horse and why do I have to attend to the riff raff of life...that's not a judgement; that 's how I read your post as coming across.

Next time you see this most unfortunate girl; really look at her; really look at her and see *her*. It's not just physical or mental. I don't mean just look at her, I mean go outside your body and look at her no judgements, no opinion, just look at her?

I can see her and I feel for her. Would you trade places with her? How did this happen to her? She sounds so young; is there no way that you will help her instead of judging her. I hear suffering.

If we help just one person in our lifetime, that changes the world. As nurses we change the world with our work. How we decide to change the world defines us as individuals.

I don't know why you're so surprised that 89% of this thread has taken the compassionate/professional side; we are nurses. You get what you give in all aspects of life. I'll talk to you in ten years and see how your perspective has changed. Good luck

Thanks to everyone who replied, but I'm done with this thread. I hoped to actually have a reasonable discussion, but I can see that just isn't possible here.

There HAS been a reasonable discussion, just not 100% validation of your position. Talk about being on a high horse.

I got to a point that I decided, if the doc orders it, I give it. Unless their vitals are off, seem sedated...etc. they get their pain meds. I was in a situation as a patient where a nurse wouldn't give me vicodin after my c-section only Tylenol. So I try to not be "that nurse". Well, one of my residents a few weeks ago asked for vicodin for their back pain. I gave it. A couple hours later this same resident downed more narcs, including ativan, klonopin, more vicodin, etc. his "well -meaning " family had brought in as "extra." And overdosed. We found a regular pharmacy, bottles from different docs hidden behind a wall(our psych patients can go out on pass. seems like he was busy getting scripts while out on pass). AT the end of the day I was questioned about how I should not have given the vicodin. (Well his vitals were fine prior to me giving him the vicodin. He wasn't sedated. I gave it.) So yes, give it as the doctor orders, use your nursing judgement and you may still get yelled at and questioned. It now makes me nervous to dispense narcs. Dispense as ordered, try to be nonjudgemental and help with their pain and at the end of the day you are damned if you do/damned if you don't.

Thanks to everyone who replied, but I'm done with this thread. I hoped to actually have a reasonable discussion, but I can see that just isn't possible here.

This is very much a reasonable discussion, with you having a viewpoint that is not supported by most of the people in the discussion. That doesn't make it not a reasonable discussion, it means that you brought up a topic to discuss and people told you what their own viewpoints were on it.

I think it's helpful to read through these kinds of discussions, and if the person with the less popular or maybe even downright wrong position recognizes this during the discussion it benefits everyone. If you don't see why your position isn't well supported, maybe doing a little more reading on the topic would help?

Don't get angry with people because they take a different opinion or their experiences in nursing don't mirror yours. They are giving you valuable information and it would be wise to keep an open mind, unless you don't plan to be working in nursing for much longer. Benefit from others' experience :)

Thankgodforativan - I found something for you this morning. It starts with the frustration we have and ends with compassion.

What you are feeling is not rare. The difficulty with treating people with addiction is complicated and actually not working all the well.

I'm all for venting frustration here. You didn't offend me.

Treat Yourself (A Justin Bieber Opioid Epidemic Anthem) | ZDoggMD

When I encounter something like this I chart that I administered the med according to the patient's request and give a detailed assessment of the lack of pain indicators. I leave it at that.

Specializes in Med/Surg, LTACH, LTC, Home Health.

I understand exactly where the OP is coming from. As a float nurse, if there is a patient like this on the unit, he or she will be assigned to the float/agency/newbie.

As many of you have stated, we can't change people like that. But the nurse in charge can change the d*** ​assignment so that one nurse doesn't have to endure this behavior for 12+ hours.

I worked in detox for 7 years and I've seen so many families destroyed because of addiction. It's not just the addict who suffers. And for 12 hours, the assigned nurse suffers at the hands of these individuals. We are the co-dependent, and with the push for pain control in this situation, we are indeed to co-conspirator. The practicing addict does not change the behavior at all; only the caregivers have changed at the point of hospital admission.

This patient should have three different nurses in a given 12-hour shift. If the patient has a problem with that, tough ****! Maybe then he or she will do some self-reflecting and behavior modification. But I seriously doubt that because I am aware of the strength and hold of addiction.

Two years ago, this same patient (different name and face, of course) succumbed to this nearly identical situation before her 25th birthday. She was such a beautiful girl before the accident (according to her photos)that spiraled into her addiction. She had dilaudid, Benadryl, phenergan, flexeril, Ativan, and xanax on her profile.

"She" provided allergies to Tylenol, Motrin, naproxen, and other OTC medications (go figure). She had decubiti that she wouldn't allow treatment of; she demanded a copy of the staff assignment (and some idiot gave it to her) so that she could pick her caregivers for the shift; and in the name of patient satisfaction, the charge nurses accommodated her every whim because "it's the addiction talking".

Well, addiction wins every time we step and fetch instead of doing what is BEST for the patient. ​To effectively care for the addict, we have to also stop enslaving the caregivers...even in the hospital environment. An ineffective caregiver is useless to the addicted patient.

If the doctors insist on fanning the flames (I do agree; we're not going to cure any addictions inside the hospital), the nurse managers and charge nurses should have a sufficient grasp of the disease process enough to know that caregiver role strain is alive and well not only with the families, but also within the nurse assigned to this patient, and as such, ensure that the assignments reflect that awareness...unless the endless begging of nurses like me (PRN) to sign up for shifts when it is blantantly obvious why my presence is limited to one shift per week, is ok.

Assigning (dumping) these types of patients on a nurse who already has 5-6 other patients is not fair nor safe practice for the nurse or the other patients. Something is going to be missed and in the end, somebody will eventually be harmed...I guarantee it!

Specializes in Psychiatric Nursing.

OP, you describe a very challenging patient. Those are the kind of patients I deal with "one shift at a time," just doing what I can to help us both make it through the shift. When I worked in psych, I frequently saw patients like this, with personality disorders combined with addiction. They are difficult to manage, for sure! A previous poster suggested learning to feel sorry for patients with screwed up lives. That is good advice, but I found it hard to do at times. Remember that your patient will not be on your floor forever. Take it one shift at a time, give her the narcotic pain medicine as it is ordered, and look forward to the day when she is discharged.

Specializes in Bottom wiping.

As a nurse in recovery your attitude annoys me. Addiction is not something anyone really wants to have. Believe me, although she may not seem to be in pain she is absolutely dying inside. Yes Im sure its frustrating but try to be a little more compassionate. When I came out to my fellow nurses as an addict I was JUDGED HARSHEST by them. Its an awful feeling. Just my two cents...

This is a difficult situation for the nurse because you will not ever get her pain under control, and thus, she will perceive her care as poor when asked to evaluate it. This always reflects badly when satisfaction scores are discussed at staff meetings.

I've been a nurse 30 years and have never experienced the increasing addiction in patients as I have over the last 10 years. In many areas of the country, mine included, it is epidemic. Students often express frustation with caring for these patients, especially those women who cause their babies to experience neonatal abstinence syndrome in the process of feeding their own addiction. The babies are innocent victims of this epidemic. It is difficult not to be judgemental toward these women; however, I remind my students that I have not walked a mile in the shoes of the patient and I do not know what drove them to this addiction. The compassion and kindness that we show to a patient during our care may be the only smile or kind words they hear all day.

This is a difficult situation for the nurse because you will not ever get her pain under control, and thus, she will perceive her care as poor when asked to evaluate it. This always reflects badly when satisfaction scores are discussed at staff meetings.

I've been a nurse 30 years and have never experienced the increasing addiction in patients as I have over the last 10 years. In many areas of the country, mine included, it is epidemic. Students often express frustation with caring for these patients, especially those women who cause their babies to experience neonatal abstinence syndrome in the process of feeding their own addiction. The babies are innocent victims of this epidemic. It is difficult not to be judgemental toward these women; however, I remind my students that I have not walked a mile in the shoes of the patient and I do not know what drove them to this addiction. The compassion and kindness that we show to a patient during our care may be the only smile or kind words they hear all day.

Yes, I agree that we cannot show our frustrations to our patients or let it hinder patient care.

But we should be able to vent about it with each other. Which is what the OP was doing, in my opinion.

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

I guess I am sensitive because I love some addicts in my family dearly myself--- and seek to understand addiction as a brain disease. And the the title really got to me. I also agree with those who suggest we rotate assignments to such patients as they take a toll on our energies and sanity. I stand by my belief that all nurses should be mandated to have CEUs on addiction because it's very clear to me that many of us do not understand addiction very well and we need to. No less than 10% of our own peers suffer it as does the general population. I have taken many CEU on it and have a pretty good understanding of it. I take care of addicts in my job now, and yes, they annoy the heck out of me at times, but my understanding of them gives me patience and the ability not to take their behaviors personally or weigh me down too much.

My advice to the OP is to self-advocate for rotation of assignments and to get some education about addiction. It won't hurt.

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