Hi. I'm a brand new RN working nights on a telemetry med-surg unit. Just started off on my own. I know there are a handful of topics on this particular subject. But I just wanted to share a particular experience I had last night calling a doctor regarding a patient, and wanted to hear how some of you would've handled this. If there is anything I need to work on, it is my assertive skills.
So I called the doctor. And it went like this...
Me: Hi Dr _____. This is ____ from _____. I'm calling in regards to a patient, _____ from room ______ who came in w/ _______. Are you familiar with him??
Dr: If you ask me that question again, I will beat your head!!! Are you stupid? Didn't you see my name on the board!? Don't you dare ask me that. Just get straight to the #^#/ point.
Of course, I apologized. Then continued and so forth, just trying to get to the point while he still rambled on. I suppose it was a dumb question. I mean, I'm still figuring all the things in the hospital and Doctor names, who is on call/who covers who, who is private - just still figuring how everything works and so forth. But still, I felt that was just a bit overboard. Yes he is a private doctor; and maybe it was a dumb thing I asked (I always ask "are you familiar with this patient" with every greeting to determine the familiarity and how much background history to provide - maybe I shouldn't ask that).
Well, at least I got orders... and I got to finally make the patient comfortable (he was ETOH withdrawal) I know that some angry or irritated doctors will just hang up or say whatever and leave you like "Huh?"
I don't know. Afterward, and even still now, I feel kind of bad. Even feel intimidated if I have to to speak to him again. I asked some of my coworkers their opinion, and apparently they weren't too surprised and told me he usually bickers about petty things such as so. What do you guys think? How do you handle angry or rude doctors or coworkers? Any advice to someone too soft like me. Thanks :)
Some docs from rough backgrounds think they're funny when they say things like that. It's not a threat and I would give it right back. If some guy spoke to me like that I would say something like I'd like to see you try or we can settle that I the parking lot. But I am from south boston. Better to take a beat down than back down in my neighborhood.
I know a kind of socially ineptt doctor who tries to act tough like this to impress a nurse he likes. It's like watching a little boy pick on a girl in grade school. Just trying to get a reaction and start a conversation. So next time give it right back. I hate this tattling crap.
I am a new grad and I had a bad experience like yours too. I felt like how am I suppose to advocate if you want to go on and on about my phone edicquit. Mine went off bc like you I started my whole chepeal without asking him if he had a minute. It seems to me the docs like to acknowledge if they have a minute and get straight to the point.
I think they forget we are all on the same side and our goals are to help our patients
OP, so sorry you went through that. Assertive skills are difficult to grow and own. We know that the MD is overworked and trying to get whatever sleep possible at night, in order to function the next day. But that is no excuse for absurd behavior such as this. with jerk doctors, i put it back upon their license, not mine. write in your nursing note "MD [name] notified at 0200 of SBP directly by this RN. MD acknowledged SBP. Orders requested, but no new orders received. Bedside assessment requested. MD declined"
No nurse on this board should EVER feel scared or apprehensive about calling the MD for any reason related to patient care or MD orders or clarification. it could save a life, and your job.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
OP, so sorry you went through that. Assertive skills are difficult to grow and own. We know that the MD is overworked and trying to get whatever sleep possible at night, in order to function the next day. But that is no excuse for absurd behavior such as this. with jerk doctors, i put it back upon their license, not mine. write in your nursing note "MD [name] notified at 0200 of SBP directly by this RN. MD acknowledged SBP. Orders requested, but no new orders received. Bedside assessment requested. MD declined"
No nurse on this board should EVER feel scared or apprehensive about calling the MD for any reason related to patient care or MD orders or clarification. it could save a life, and your job.
Anyway, please report this horse's orifice :)
Good advice with one exception. I would never use "MD [name]" format for my notes for the simple reason that many of the doctors we work with don't have MD degrees. In many cases the nurse had no way of knowing witch of the several possible degrees a physician has. All of them are called "Doctor" (even those who do not hold a doctorate degree) and can be written as "Dr. [name]".
one physician actually get abusive with me on the phone. In the midst of him yelling and screaming and cussing I actually started laughing at it. He actually asked me if I would like him to come down and say it to my face? I laughed and said I could really enjoy that... What he didn't know was I am a 280 pound former Olympic wrestler and I teach Brazilian jujitsu and coach at a mixed martial arts school now my spare time. When he came down to the unit he was yelling and screaming and saying he wanted to see me and when I stood up he turned kind of pale and I laughed I said are you sure you still want to have a conversation with me doc? He actually turned out to be a pretty good guy and we have a good laugh about it now and again. The point is never tolerate abusive behavior from the physician always report it and never let administration intimidate you!
atleast you are a man that helps..with women they are quicker to rip us to shreds..i will tell one in a minute that he is on speakerphone...or before i hang out i will notate for him all the yelling and cussing...and to callback when he feels like talking about said patient
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
I am always calling residents at night. This might be different for those who only deal with attending. One thing I do is when the physician tells me to do something stupid, like "don't call me about this again" I always enter it in the computer order entry as a nursing text order just like any other order. It's there for their bosses to see in the morning. Usually doesn't work out very well for them.
He actually asked me if I would like him to come down and say it to my face? I laughed and said I could really enjoy that... What he didn't know was I am a 280 pound former Olympic wrestler and I teach Brazilian jujitsu and coach at a mixed martial arts school now my spare time. When he came down to the unit he was yelling and screaming and saying he wanted to see me and when I stood up he turned kind of pale and I laughed I said are you sure you still want to have a conversation with me doc?
LMAO
Many of us here have taken the very same prerequisite courses as physicians. For whatever reasons, we chose different paths. I never seriously considered medical school for various reasons, length of time in school being a factor. If I become a nurse, its highly unlikely I would ever let a doctor speak to me this way because he/she would already sense that I'm no slouch.
I wish my situation was different where I could enroll in an engineering program. And barring any major financial situation, I'm starting to lean heavily in that direction while my nursing application is already in play (pending decisions) this summer. Sure you can memorize math and physics formulas, but you will fail almost immediately as you actually have to show your work in class. Except in rare cases, answers are not A through E. Similarly, I have great fondness for courses like pharmacology (though heavy memorization is involved when learning drugs, but the concepts are key to passing this course). I respect the doctor who made his/her commitment to study medicine as the time away from family and friends and all that is surely tough. However, the mid-level practitioners made similar commitments, though not quite parallel.
Hardly any doctor remembers the finer points of anatomy (dissecting) or even the many biochemistry or organic chemistry pathways (hence residency to specialize). It bugs me when a physician feels (if this thread is to be completely believed) he/she is above everyone else. Many nurses could have been doctors. Many nurses made the leap to become doctors. While doctors need to possess good study skills, many are not as smart as they lead you to believe. If the non-physician reads up, stay up to date with something of interest, he/she won't feel intimidated. I tell you, learn a skill if you can... learn higher math, learn basic physics and chemistry and how things work in physiology. You will feel empowered.
Don't get me wrong, we need all the COMPETENT healthcare professionals we can have and doctors are rightfully the ones who make the final call simply because of medical training. All fields however, have competent and less competent professionals.
Listen to this renowned astrophysicist talk on a range of issues, including:
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
I've only had
one physician actually get abusive with me on the phone. In the midst of him yelling and screaming and cussing I actually started laughing at it. He actually asked me if I would like him to come down and say it to my face? I laughed and said I could really enjoy that... What he didn't know was I am a 280 pound former Olympic wrestler and I teach Brazilian jujitsu and coach at a mixed martial arts school now my spare time. When he came down to the unit he was yelling and screaming and saying he wanted to see me and when I stood up he turned kind of pale and I laughed I said are you sure you still want to have a conversation with me doc? He actually turned out to be a pretty good guy and we have a good laugh about it now and again. The point is never tolerate abusive behavior from the physician always report it and never let administration intimidate you!
This post reminded me of the time my husband kicked a cardiologist in the head. The guy was 6'4" tall and had a nasty attitude toward nurses. He went after DH about some minor little detail, and was told about that details importance in the greater scheme of things. Politely. Cardiologist asked if DH wanted to "take it outside." DH said something like, "You don't want to go there, doc." Doc said something about how he certainly did want to go there, and he had a brown belt in judo (or some such). DH shrugged, and told him "OK, if you're sure. But we'll do it at the dojong, not in the parking lot." That should have been enough of a clue. It wasn't.
I wasn't there, but I did hear about the spectacular kick DH placed right alongside the guy's head in the opening moves of the match. Cardiologist had a LOT of respect for DH about that. In fact, he was never nasty to any of the nurses in our unit following that episode! He laughed, one time, and told me that "If I bark at you, he'll kick me in the head again."
I am always calling residents at night. This might be different for those who only deal with attending. One thing I do is when the physician tells me to do something stupid, like "don't call me about this again" I always enter it in the computer order entry as a nursing text order just like any other order. It's there for their bosses to see in the morning. Usually doesn't work out very well for them.
This post reminded me of the time my husband kicked a cardiologist in the head. The guy was 6'4" tall and had a nasty attitude toward nurses. He went after DH about some minor little detail, and was told about that details importance in the greater scheme of things. Politely. Cardiologist asked if DH wanted to "take it outside." DH said something like, "You don't want to go there, doc." Doc said something about how he certainly did want to go there, and he had a brown belt in judo (or some such). DH shrugged, and told him "OK, if you're sure. But we'll do it at the dojong, not in the parking lot." That should have been enough of a clue. It wasn't.
I wasn't there, but I did hear about the spectacular kick DH placed right alongside the guy's head in the opening moves of the match. Cardiologist had a LOT of respect for DH about that. In fact, he was never nasty to any of the nurses in our unit following that episode! He laughed, one time, and told me that "If I bark at you, he'll kick me in the head again."
Whats a "DH"?
See I'm glad your husband whipped some tail. I'd love to seen this. Amazing this guy challenged and then fought and still has a job/license. The doctor that is.
Part of me would have filed a police report, found a lawyer and made some easy money from the facility. I get the idea this "doctor" would not have denied any of his statements.
ProgressiveActivist, BSN, RN
670 Posts
Some docs from rough backgrounds think they're funny when they say things like that. It's not a threat and I would give it right back. If some guy spoke to me like that I would say something like I'd like to see you try or we can settle that I the parking lot. But I am from south boston. Better to take a beat down than back down in my neighborhood.