SmoothKeys

"For the most part you will be respected; people generally do love nurses. But that one person who says "just a nurse" or "didn't you want to be a doctor really"is really going to get to you, especially when you experience an issue where management takes the Drs side on an issue when you really believe you are in the right." I know a few people might be reading this and feel... gee I've heard this before about nursing. As I've not been shy about this (on a nursing forum where many people feel it's their dream), I'm approaching this purely as a job and tailor the good to my scientific zeal. All jobs have pros and cons and unless that job is one very few people can aspire to do (e.g. astrophysics, neurosurgery), the professional utility gained from the 'low-tier' jobs (nursing) can be abysmally low. It is one reason at the outset, if I decide to proceed with this nursing gig, to set my sights on . My life's situation calls for a mid-level type work. The passion of yesteryear doing biochemistry research, participating in engineering physics group projects (an interesting one was for the pacemaker), and more during college years in anticipation of a big healthcare career (in which I get fully paid for my intellect and money spent earning the degree--healthcare schools tend to be most expensive) must take a backseat to other stressful but enjoyable things in life. When people ask the questions I highlighted above in your comments, the response ought to be: why not nursing? Though I have options still, for example, between PA and nursing, in my early thirties if I'm waiting to conform to what other people want of me, I won't be a better husband, father, and friend where too many men (especially these days) have succumbed to the daily pressures. The essence of this article applies wherever the reader may be located. And it is tough everywhere... especially from the lab to patients (where the pressure is increased exponentially). One more thing, I work in an office setting and nothing is more deflating than knowing what I do is not easily transferable if I move elsewhere. With nursing, PA on the other hand, I'll be a professional (however one may view this term in these profession).

I'm a newly accepted RN student starting at the only nursing school I applied to and it is an associate degree program (cost and timing being major factors). I would love to read specific replies to your question. What are your interests? In college, as a summer research intern, we did diabetes and geriatrics research. However, it was not nursing-focused and the professors taught. I doubt you wouldn't have teaching responsibilities. For me, once I'm at the point where I could apply to PhD programs (assuming I do) I would embraced the idea of teaching higher academics pertaining to my research studies. Let is discuss scientific ideas if you'd like. Good luck.

If that's how you feel, then I suppose I've got nothing else to add. But trying to kick somebody at his/her weakest, insinuating he couldn't pass pathology while a student at a school that supposedly accept rejects is hardly professional. It's not even humor... I'll take your second comment to the OP's question as a big improvement. (But I've given way too much space to this nonsensical and I'll add no further comment on this). Best to you.

How does this contribute to the discourse of the thread? Advance the nursing profession indirectly (in this case) and put some thoughts behind a reply to a former medical student contemplating your profession as a career. Thanks.

Most people have come to expect doctors to be studious and generally do well on standardized exams. They've taken the hard courses to make the cut. Most people outside of medicine view physicians as having completed a certain marathon, if you will, and at times can't fathom that said physician could be the most miserable professional in his/her chose profession. As is evidenced on this particular thread and the forums at large, the consensus is that physicians in relation to nursing, are perhaps too smart for their own good to possibly 'downgrade'. As a former pharmacy student I've taken some very rigorous courses (including physics/calculus based, obviously organic/medicinal chemistry, genetics) and none were any different than the courses actual premed students take. Nursing students even take the very same courses as pharmacy and medical students. The difference is the depth. It's a given that nursing students need to understand basic physiology, pharmacology, and basic pharmaceutical calculations to complement hands-on training. Likewise, pharmacy student know these too but we go deeper in the physiology... for example during the cardiac cycle I know what happens during phase 4 in the SA node: it is -60mV, depolarization will occur when positive cations (specifically calcium) enter the cell via the leaky channels... inside the cell becomes less negative and the slope becomes more upward (triggering depolarization). Or in the ventricular muscle cell, we are taught about the L-type Ca++ channels, Kdr channels, K to channels and that for ventricular cells it is Na+ not calcium that excites them to depolarize (propagate electrical signal). I can go on and on and any little concept or fact are fair game for exams! Clearly, nursing schools don't need to go this deep (except perhaps in graduate school). And here, the chemistry courses (medicinal chemistry in particular and tracing electron flow and remembering specific nucleotides (subunits of nucleic acids) and doing brute calculations involving Henderson-Hasselbalch equations to determine acidity can be intimidating. Actual medical students, at least at my last research university, do something different than chemistry in school. Like all med students they learn to diagnose, work with cadavers to learn a bunch of details for anatomy, they study histology and a host of things that do seem dizzying. Yes, we study the same clinical biochemistry but here, but here it is used for differential diagnosis to cement what is learned in other courses. And when they specialize, they go even deeper. And years are training is expected. The point is, nursing through medicine is difficult. I'm of the opinion that nursing is probably harder than pharmacy school because one must apply so much of what is learned in school and when one is directly caring for patients, I think the stress is clear. For me, there were circumstances that necessitate I withdraw and not get deeper in debt. And if I could no longer be a clinical pharmacist, then I din't need to be in the pharmacy profession where, in the opinion of most, one doesn't apply much of what is learned in school. I'm curious to know of the OP's story as well and while I'm also considering nursing as a second career, I think if I specialize it will fulfill my career goals and intellectual stimulation I seek in a career. Long reply, but good luck with your career choice.

A request was made and there was a verbal agreement since the end of the prior semester. Perhaps, allowing it was not feasible but why the insult in her reply? So in denying a request it's okay to do so in a most unprofessional manner? It's a real shame to put up with such uncouth people. And they are many. Right now blogs like these help me put things in perspective.

LMAO Many of us here have taken the very same prerequisite courses as physicians. For whatever reasons, we chose different paths. I never seriously considered medical school for various reasons, length of time in school being a factor. If I become a nurse, its highly unlikely I would ever let a doctor speak to me this way because he/she would already sense that I'm no slouch. I wish my situation was different where I could enroll in an engineering program. And barring any major financial situation, I'm starting to lean heavily in that direction while my nursing application is already in play (pending decisions) this summer. Sure you can memorize math and physics formulas, but you will fail almost immediately as you actually have to show your work in class. Except in rare cases, answers are not A through E. Similarly, I have great fondness for courses like pharmacology (though heavy memorization is involved when learning drugs, but the concepts are key to passing this course). I respect the doctor who made his/her commitment to study medicine as the time away from family and friends and all that is surely tough. However, the mid-level practitioners made similar commitments, though not quite parallel. Hardly any doctor remembers the finer points of anatomy (dissecting) or even the many biochemistry or organic chemistry pathways (hence residency to specialize). It bugs me when a physician feels (if this thread is to be completely believed) he/she is above everyone else. Many nurses could have been doctors. Many nurses made the leap to become doctors. While doctors need to possess good study skills, many are not as smart as they lead you to believe. If the non-physician reads up, stay up to date with something of interest, he/she won't feel intimidated. I tell you, learn a skill if you can... learn higher math, learn basic physics and chemistry and how things work in physiology. You will feel empowered. Don't get me wrong, we need all the COMPETENT healthcare professionals we can have and doctors are rightfully the ones who make the final call simply because of medical training. All fields however, have competent and less competent professionals. Listen to this renowned astrophysicist talk on a range of issues, including: . Please scroll to 1:36s to get right to it.

I'm in a slightly different situation and I appreciate your advice. Certainly, I would have applied to nursing even a couple years ago if it were my passion. My question is, what if what one "LOVES" to do is just not practical? That said, I've been looking at my old interest in engineering again. The lost income mired in indecision has caused me stress of late. I sent my nursing application, yet I've begun to think about turning down a possible acceptance of an associate program with hundreds of applicants vying for 70 spots or so. I feel a little guilt as for some people, nursing is their dream career. I've been turned off because it seems the nurse is not treated as a professional but a servant. Lots of horror stories on this site for every positive ones. I value respect and competitive pay for my intellect and skills I'll learn in nursing school. Perhaps, I'll find that more in engineering. (One volunteer coordinator feared the same for me and never replied upon finding of my nursing plans). It's crazy, yet, I know this volunteer meant well.

I know the feeling. Tried research and there my PhD professor was always stressed about funding for her work. While for me, I felt justified to not incur any more big debts toward a degree that costs over six figures, I feel a nursing education is quick and "cheap" compared to other healthcare careers. I don't like giving these advice but perhaps, you could earn the degree and then see your niche that could very well be as a researcher say in Geriatrics.

I tend to disagree with this type of thinking. Look no further than this site and the success stories are moving; they are about individuals who persevered and especially of those who failed and refused to give up again. Sometimes the failure was for reasons that were non-academic at all. They are about people who figured out nursing is for them, but it is also about individuals who are honest about their capabilities to withstand the rigors of a nursing program. Indeed, famed neurosurgeon, Dr. Benjamin Carson background was supposed to lead him to failure. His brother went on to become a successful mechanical engineer, too. But that's because they both were honest with their intellectual aptitude. In organic chemistry, especially, I cursed it in undergrad and appreciated certain concepts later in medicinal chemistry. Yet, I won't be a part of a drug design team. If someone follows a goal through (out of passion or necessity), he/she is a success. I dream of being an engineer (I think I'm honest with my ability to learn) but my circumstances dictate a nursing career is likely (and I've been saying this since last year, meaning I need to make the jump already). This is one case where success will be out of necessity and there's a part of me that feels guilty about this. But as you've said loosely, I'm the competition.

As a former pharmacy student, I can see where the OP is coming from. First off, if you work retail you'll come to hate the job. You'll come to see the addition of a drive-thru a far cry from all the clinical knowledge you'd hope to apply. The evening news mostly show the pharmacist counting pills and for the most part a pharmacist is on his/her feet all day needing to meet a certain quota and being reminded ever more so at the sound of a beep: "lane 1!" People talk about money... What money? First off, the market is quite saturated, you've spent six figures for school (hiring bonuses are long gone), and those who are established somewhat are most likely older folks who are still working. When I worked retail, the pharmacist complained of lack of hours, some hated the job. Two nights I helped out at one busy store, they staffed one pharmacist to manage the drive-thru and lobby. She never cracked a smile. For me, a clinical pharmacist job was no longer in play as I botched my grades while I contemplated my next step. I'd lost interest and in second year, I called it quits. Problem is, I'm not sure if becoming a nurse (beyond being cheaper to earn) is for me still. Yes you learn mostly the same stuff as in pharmacy school, but after graduation, what next? The stories here are alarming and yet, most seem accurate in their day-to-day jobs. Like the OP, I'm thinking along the line of an NP job because I believe here, one actually does put in practice what is learned in school. Heck, even as an RN one better know their stuff! The stress is too great to be passive in clinical and hands-on knowledge. I feel a great job brings satisfaction in any career but it's all about opportunities. I wished I'd stay the engineering route but it's not stable; law is pricey with hardly any jobs line up; dentistry and medicine are super expensive and time consuming (if you are middle aged with family responsibilities such as myself). For me it's coming down to engineering (mechanical or civil and let the chips fall where they may) or swallow my pride and be perceived as "downgrading" career from pharmD to nursing (one volunteer coordinator refused to place me in a volunteer spot). Fortunately, I only need three courses in advanced math (Calc 2 & 3 and differential equations to transfer to engineering) but those courses (with labs) are offered during the day and I work. Meanwhile I took the Kaplan and scored very high, making nursing next semester a difficult choice to pass on. So as you can see, everyone has different situations that warrant a change. By the way for PA school, you better make sure you have well over 2000 hours of actual patient contact ("actually touching patients") as the admissions department stressed out. Can I find the time to do this? It's ridiculous all because they want to make sure you were not an MD applicant who didn't make the cut. And not being an MD, I would not think for one second he/she is on top of the world. Many want out!

GrnTea: "Can't get over my failure," eh? A little out of touch there? I remember my organic chemistry 2 days when one needed to really think like a research chemist (but without any prior training). Yet, other people found calculus physics quite challenging where I found it to be more enjoyable, simply because I enjoyed the topic. Switching gears a bit. I remember, during a very tough chess tourney. It seemed I was on the verge of beating a strong master. I couldn't believe it and second guessed a lot; nearly lost! Another time, against yet a strong player (rating in the 2100) squandered a 2 move win only to lose. I lost back to back games to lesser players because of this. Even the very best doubt. Dr. Benjamin Carson overcame his challenges (void the politics please) and today is a renowned neurosurgeon. Finally, it's not that the OP won't (get past the experience); au contraire! But maybe, you saw something different. I don't discount 'tough love', but here it was uncalled for after a post or two.

I couldn't agree with you more! Each organ is so fascinating in that each function is vital for life. The cardiovascular system needs to be understood to fully appreciate it's complexities (and to pass :) ). Memorizing will not help much as each patient scenario is different. While this can be said of any patient, the heart RN has a lot to consider. For example (I'm making these up): which could Not be the source of increased cardiac output? A) blood & parasympathetic B) sympathetic & hypotension C) blood & sympathetic D) A & B. E) None of the above What is the likely state of a patient whose body is attempting to release as much aldosterone as possible? A) edematous B) obese C) severely dehydrated D) severely depressed I'm pretty sure nursing school is hard, my only concern is that we won't use much of that knowledge in the real world. Many nurses say the job is mundane with little use of said knowledge. There is so much to know and when I apply for this fall, I imagine it won't be a cakewalk! Congrats to those who got in! To those still waiting, don't despair. I wish I were smarter years ago to go the nursing route.

At my job

As a former pharmacy student, there are many times I do regret leaving the field (was in 2nd year), especially when I read candid replies from actual nurses who see themselves as the bottom of the healthcare chain. Someone mentioned earlier about the debt pharmacists incur being commensurable with the over six-figure debt. While pharmacists make more money than regular RNs/BSNs, the very high salary is just not the same anymore with a lot more pharmacists and the economy. Like the OP, I very much wanted to be a clinical pharmacist but it was becoming more difficult realize given my subpar grades. Also, I did not like to memorize drugs. Unlike the OP, I doubt very much I'd consider leaving clinical pharmacy for nursing because there is less physical work and like someone mentioned earlier, it is more intellectual. But one still has to work with supposed colleagues with inflated egos... those who eschew patients' well-being because they want to be in command. Given the OP, I guess every job has their ups and downs, however clichéd. While I consider PA, DNP (though I'd have to work my way up) and PhD in science, I continue to research the nursing career because as mentioned on this forum or elsewhere, there are responsibilities. My life situation dictates that I carefully monitor my debt level. Also, the length of the school is a factor. As a clinical pharmacist, I'm sure if you decided to go the nursing route, you could land an administrative position somewhere. Also, while the job market is tough, the notion that there is zero job is a bit of an exaggeration. Consider my cousin who graduated last May from a BSN program with honors and subsequently passed her boards (NCLEX) on the first try. She is now commending a good salary and already is making plans for the DNP degree and she was about 22 years old. I think she finds the job a little boring though. Finally, I'm just not sure if I will eventually study nursing. And if I had to do it again, I most likely would stay in pharmacy (NOT RETAIL) carefully carving a niche for myself. I actually like calculating pH, learning about the cytochrome p450s that break down drugs, the pathways of drugs in biotransformation in medicial chemistry, the pharmacology and so on. Still, there are many overlaps with all healthcare profession so I should be good either way and I can still continue to learn the above mentioned for my professional maturation. The one difference I found with physiology in pharmacy is that we actually go deeper into how calcium works at the molecular level and must therefore learn second messengers.I can go on... but I'm trying to move on from my bad experience overall. So OP stay in clinical pharmacy if you can... or try to become a DNP (medical school might be too costly and time consuming). I, personally, hardly considered medical school. I hope you find peace in your decision.