Help!

[adsanders1963]

Hello all,

I am a 35 yo male who will be finishing his PhD in clinical psychology this year. I am thinking about going back to school to become a FNP or Psychiatric NP. During my clinical internship I had a lot of conversations with patients and psychiatrists about the lack of behavioral healthcare, especially in prescribing medicine. There are only a few states that allow for psychologists to prescribe and as of now I can't committ to living that far away from my parents due to them aging. I am also interested in working with the LGBT community at the basic medical but also psychiatric level. I have great skills in psychotherapy but I would like to be able to assist them further. With all this being said...

What are your thoughts about someone with a PhD re-entering into another healthcare field?

What challenges do you think I face?

Also, I have 2 bachelor's degrees (Biology and Psychology). I would have to start over with courses that would allow me to even apply to nursing school. What are your thoughts on getting my RN and then pursuing a BSN-MSN program?

Additionally, I have maxed out my loans so as for now I would have to either pay out of pocket or work to pay for school. Has anyone worked and gotten their ASN and then continued on in school while working?

I know I have a lot of questions but I have been contemplating this a lot lately.

[elkpark]

You know that saying, "When ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise"?

It applies here, in spades. What if physicians could do the same? I don't see the AMA ever condoning something like that.

I truly fear for the future of Nursing. That's not hyperbole; what in the world are we middle aged/almost seniors going to do when we need nursing care? And God help future generations.

I'm no fan of the direct-entry programs but, to be fair, they have been around for decades now (40 years or more?) and I'm not aware of any research that suggests that, as a group, they are less competent or knowledgable as clinicians than advanced practice nurses who took the traditional educational route. If you have some research that shows that they are deficient in some way, I'd be happy to see it. Addtionally, there are now many, many people who complete a traditional nursing program and immediately turn around and enter a graduate program that takes people without any nursing experience (there are plenty of those, now, too), which is essentially the same thing, but I don't hear the same kind of alarm and predictions of doom about that that I hear about the direct-entry programs.

We middle-aged/almost seniors are going to get nursing care when we need nursing care. People are flocking into nursing in droves these days; you can't swing a dead cat in any decent sized community without hitting a nursing school, and they're all turning candidates away every year. There are more nurses now than there have ever been. Obviously, TPTB in nursing have made a decision to go for quantity rather than quality, but there will be enough good nurses around. When I was in nursing school, older nurses were decrying how nursing education had deteriorated since they were in school and fearing for the future of nursing. I'm sure that every generation of nurses has felt that way about the "new, young whippersnappers." That's human nature. It doesn't mean the sky is actually falling.

[meanmaryjean, DNP, RN]

OP: No one was rude to you. You asked for our opinions and we gave them. It's called 'honesty'. Please reconsider thoughtfully looking at the excellent advice you've been given here. Remember: You came to us.

[adsanders1963]

"Kind" is probably what has kept you from advancing past being a student your entire life so far.

You had to have realized that not everyone was going to pat you on the head and tell you that all knowledge is important, and you'll find what you really want to do in time.

Because you may not. Saying it's time to push yourself out of the nest and join the workforce while you ponder your future isn't being rude. It just isn't what you want to hear.

Before making an assumption of who I am and what has been done to me you might want to ask questions first. I have been in the working world and I have worked as a psychologist as well. I have not been in school all my life and I earned my both of my bachelors degrees at the same time. Mom advice is not what is needed. Professional advice is. I have two wonderful parents who I can consult with as needed so I don't need a third.

[adsanders1963]

OP: No one was rude to you. You asked for our opinions and we gave them. It's called 'honesty'. Please reconsider thoughtfully looking at the excellent advice you've been given here. Remember: You came to us.

Yes, I came to you and this is giving me a good opinion of how nurses are and behave. Clearly, I made the right choice of being a PhD level psychologist. I would never be "honest" in the way you have been. Thanks for your "advice". I'll consult elsewhere where there are PMHNP.

[Awesomocity0]

Yes, I came to you and this is giving me a good opinion of how nurses are and behave. Clearly, I made the right choice of being a PhD level psychologist. I would never be "honest" in the way you have been. Thanks for your "advice". I'll consult elsewhere where there are PMHNP.

If you wanted people to pander to you and skirt around the truth, because that's how you treat your clients, I feel bad for the institution that gave you your degree, any employers you have had, and all of your patients.

Furthermore, don't wave your degrees at us. A lot of us have/are pursuing advanced degrees and are very happy in our professions. You can't come in here, talk about wanting to be one of us, because you're not happy with your scope as a psychologist, and then say you ARE happy/made the right decision about becoming a psychologist when you don't like our answers. It's contradictory. We see through it.

Sincerely,

Awesomocity0, BSN, RN (with a BS in microbiology, a BA in literature, all magna cum laude, entering med school in 2016)

[Jensmom7, BSN, RN]

Yes, I came to you and this is giving me a good opinion of how nurses are and behave. Clearly, I made the right choice of being a PhD level psychologist. I would never be "honest" in the way you have been. Thanks for your "advice". I'll consult elsewhere where there are PMHNP.

Ok, I've erased three responses to this post because I don't feel like getting my hand slapped by the mods.

Suffice it to say, it's pretty obvious that you really don't want advice, unless it makes you feel good and comes from people you seem "worthy".

Also, you seem to be angry that no one is impressed by your degrees. Would you care to tell us why??

[traumaRUs, MSN, APRN]

Moved to student NP forum for more answers. Best wishes with your decision.

[nyc2011]

Hello there, this is an interesting post! I am sorry to hear you are maxed out in loans…what does that mean?? What is the max you can take out? If it is over 100,000. I would seriously advise you to not go for FNP. To be a FNP you have to become a RN first…yikes…that is a lot more school and you will be starting literally in a new field. It's going to take many years!!!

Why are you unhappy with the phd? Is it the pay? If it is, some FNPS don't make as much as you think…..depending on which area you are in.

You have a highly respected position and you have the highest degree!!! why change now? Give that career a chance!!! Work at least 5 years so you can pay those loans!

[applesxoranges, BSN, RN]

Get a job working in a hospital system. Then begin researching routes to get into a direct NP program. There are a handful of programs out there. In a perfect world, you're looking at another 2 to 5 years for a FNP or Psych NP. If you can't get into a direct entry program, add in a minimum of one year for an accelerated BSN or two to three for a regular bsn or ADN and then two to three for an advance degree.

[Rocknurse, MSN, APRN, NP]

I'll play devil's advocate here because I don't like to rain on anyone's parade. I would say if it's something you really, really want to do, then no amount of naysayers should prevent you from doing so. Personally, I never take advice (lol) and I'm pretty driven so I've managed to make things work for me by sheer determination and some risk taking. I will say though, that there are no guarantees, but there aren't in life in general. The loans would make me nervous. I already have loans starting to rack up for grad school but they're so far on the lower end and it still makes me nervous, but nothing was ever achieved by standing on the sidelines and wringing ones hands. I would say that the best way to go forward is to make an informed decision. Shadow a couple nurses and see what it really entails to work as an RN.

The thing is, that unlike med school, you can't just go to APRN school and be an APRN. It's a long and arduous road, and only the tough and determined can follow a path that long and arduous and come through it. Being an RN is hard. You are required to learn a LOT of complicated material, be pretty much perfect all of the time, and are still treated on a par with housekeeping with little respect or autonomy. It's not just about being smart, which you obviously are in bucketloads. It's about being able to deal with unexpected, messy, dangerous and complex conditions simutaneously while keeping your cool and making the right decisions. all with someone's life in your hands. If I had a Phd, I suspect that i would be seeking employment using that and circumnavigate the entire bedside experience, because I've been aiming higher since day 1 and the thought of having to go back to the beginning now would cause me nightmares. But then, you're younger than me.

At the end of the day, it is possible and you can do anything you want. Do you have the stamina though? Good luck.

[Jules A, MSN]

I was pleasantly surprised at the practical advice you received. Maybe be thankful? that you weren't hit with the usual codependent nursing mantra: Woo Hoo, yes go for it! Blindly follow your passion! You are never to old, decrepit, financially indebted or intellectually challenged to pursue your dream of prescribing... or wearing a bikini.

Somewhat tongue in cheek but not totally. Personally I think there is a shelf life for most things and blissful happiness is not only overrated but it comes at a price so being thoughtful rather than just following emotion is crucial imo.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

[SnowShoeRN]

Hi OP. I wrote a great, long response, and then my ipad proceeded to eat it. Anyway. My favorite professor from my MSN program has both a PhD in Psychology and is a PMHNP. And, if you think you ultimately would like to pursue a PMHNP, I think they would complement each other well. I know many psychologists who are frustrated that they can't prescribe and many PMHNP's who are disappointed that they don't have a stronger clinical/counseling background.

That being said, I don't know how much in debt you are (though there are opportunities like work study for full time grad students, scholarships, tuition reimbursement programs, and significantly reduced cost by going to a state school) so formulating a plan to work while you're in school is probably a good idea. Not only from a financial standpoint, but also from a get-experience-with-having-your-PhD standpoint.

And, it's also important to know that just like a person who wishes to become a psychiatrist must contend with the basics of med school, you must ask yourself if you wish to contend with the basics of nursing school which include lots of blood, mucous, urine, and feces. Not everyone is cut out for it. And, even if you get your ADN/ASN before pursuing a BSN/MSN it is unlikely that you will find a job as a psych RN right off the bat. Most places do require you work in a med surg position for at least a year before specializing. Although some people do get lucky.

A direct-entry program might be a better fit for you in that they can typically be completed in 2-3 years depending on your pre-reqs needed and whether you're able to go full time.

Only you know the specifics of your situation, but I hope I've helped a bit. Best of luck.