we've been having heated - but not yet angry - discussions

Nurses General Nursing

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regarding the provision of medical services to undocumented residents - illegal aliens. As students, we've had the opportunity this semester to have clinical experiences that include being with community nurses as they make well-baby visits to the new parents. Seems as if we've all noticed a vast percentage have been to undocumented families.

We're a divided bunch. Some of us can't afford insurance while in school and yet see these families recieving services that they can't get. We've discussed the morals of providing health care to all/any who are in need. The ever-present problems of limited budgeting. Today it was mentioned about the helicopter crash this weekend in Texas. An undocumented mother and her ill child were being flown somewhere for treatment when the helicopter went down. Pilot, mother, baby died. The nurse was critically injured.

A long-time L&D nurse at one of the local hospitals commented when I asked her what her thoughts were (she has some interesting experiences as a Peace Corp nurse in South America, a more global view of nursing than is usually seen here in the midwest) "Well, I've never had to do a drug test on an Hispanic mother, I've never had to call in family services for suspected abuse. I have done these many, many times for 'our own white trailer trash' American residents." She'd rather see the young families have a chance at a healthy start.

It's a puzzlement to me. I'm not sure how I feel about this. Much of my concern is linked to budget. I just see a greater and greater drain on an extremely overtaxed system already. If we have to limit our services - should not our own citizens recieve the first services available?

arghhhhhhhhhhhhh - these ethical discussions make my head spin sometimes. I think I know what I believe and then someone makes a good point and I have to reconsider what I have already concluded to be true.

I feel like Eeyore.... think, think, think, think, think

VERY WELL SAID!!! MAYBE IF THE CITIZENS HERE ARE WILLING TO DO THE JOBS THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS HAVE, EMPLOYERS WOULDN'T HAVE TO HIRE THE UNDOCUMENTED ONES.

Maybe if the employers would pay a decent wage for the work, Americans would apply. They don't have to hire illegals, they choose to. Cheap labor, no health insurance or sick pay, can't complain about poor treatment on the job... what employer could ask for more? I don't think we help illegals by defending those who take advantage of them as cheap labour.

Maybe if the employers would pay a decent wage for the work, Americans would apply. They don't have to hire illegals, they choose to. Cheap labor, no health insurance or sick pay, can't complain about poor treatment on the job... what employer could ask for more? I don't think we help illegals by defending those who take advantage of them as cheap labour.

fergus! I found something we agree on! :chuckle I know that when I become a nurse, I will treat everyone equally and I really truly try not to look down on others for their race, sex, etc. I never really think too much about illegal immigrants and now I am (we don't have many here in our little town in NY) so it is great that this topic was brought up. Another thing to really look into and see what our government is doing/not doing about it.

LOL! We have a lot of illegal and legal immigrants where I work. Personally, I could care less where the patients are from. I get the same hourly wage either way and am one of thoe crazy Canadians who thinks everyone deserves healthcare.

I would give the care. Legal or not. If we can pay for bombs then we can pay for care.

Specializes in Inpatient Acute Rehab.
LOL! We have a lot of illegal and legal immigrants where I work. Personally, I could care less where the patients are from. I get the same hourly wage either way and am one of thoe crazy Canadians who thinks everyone deserves healthcare.

Amen to that!!! :p

Specializes in Inpatient Acute Rehab.
I would give the care. Legal or not. If we can pay for bombs then we can pay for care.

My sentiments exactly!!!

Specializes in ER, ICU, L&D, OR.
I would give the care. Legal or not. If we can pay for bombs then we can pay for care.

I agree

And where is Ted Kennedy when we need him

No 'flame' here but I wish to present another viewpoint. The kind of reasoning above is why I can't support the Democratic party...they find it is always easier to pull in unrelated topic and emotionalize THAT than discussing a problem. What does the anti war sentiment have to do with the abuses of our social services and welfare system in our country, our ridiculously high taxes and the unsafe borders we now where where illegals are streaming in to cash in on our liberal social system (or worse)?

I have family who works in customs, teaching and border patrol and what goes on is ridiculous, believe me. Most people who live close to our southern border and are in the know would likely agree with much of what I say.

The illegals work for cash in my area so only pay sales tax when they purchase taxeable items. They live in rental properties and thus pay no property taxes (which is what supports schools and local public facilities in my area.) Did everyone here know our schools must educate their children too?? And provide bilingual educators? In my opinion these illegals are NOT innocent victims but are taking advantage. They cross the border to have their baby in our hospitals so their family can then demand welfare/citizen benefits. Become legal and obey our laws:no problem then, but the current abuse must stop, IMO. California seems to recognize this.

Personally I am troubled our President is downplaying the seriousness of the problem and would like to see a harder line than he has proposed.

The legal 'visitors' from other countries are a whole other issue and whole other danger to our nation. I would prefer to see our tax dollars go to protecting our country than to our inflated social services system, frankly. That is government's primary function IMO; to protect its citizens. somehow we've really got off track since the depression on what exactly our government is supposed to be doing.

Not attempting to be argumentative here, but I feel that more conservative viewpoints have a right to be expressed in this forum as well, and hope that we can have civil discussions without resorting to the namecalling I've seen in the past.

As nice as it would be to just share our healthcare with the whole world for free...in reality, there are only so many slices in a pie!

The money to pay for all this has to come from somewhere. My vote would be to close the borders, stop paying for free healthcare and free education to anyone who is not a here legally. Get healthcare taken care of for our own citizens and then let's deal with the rest of the world.

How far will your own income go if you do not budget and prioritize??

I'm for militarizing our borders, and allowing migration with worker visas and or sponsorships. If the family is guaranteed support before entering the country, then come on in. Glad to meet ya. If not, then the truth is I can't afford for you to come.

Our country cannot support the whole world..... like it or not, it's reality.

For those already here, those with jobs and income to support their families should be allowed to stay. Those who don't, need to be shipped back. Anyone who crossed the borders illegally took the chance that they may get shipped back, so this shouldn't be a big surprise.

Also regarding IRS and taxation...let me tell you how the scenario worked at a manufacturing compny I worked for. The workers take the maximum deductions possible out of paychecks ...... then after our company had submitted info to IRS for taxes, we would be notified that "XXXXX"'s social security card was invalid. Gee... guess who had already moved on to the next job! So he paid the minimal amount then could not be found to pay what he really owed.

So YES they are cheating on paying their own fair share. I've personally seen it done. I would love to only be paying taxes at that rate! Oh yes.... state taxes on purchased goods.... whoopee. That certainly doesn't cover the costs of the social services and education we have to shell out for them.

My husband teaches at a high school that is primarily hispanic with a large percentage of immigrant kids. The kids frequently miss many days of school (no not for working in the fields) and the parents are not involved. Truancy is a big issue and they feel that the education should be tailored to them an their schedules. The whole family is going to Mexico for a month so Junior misses school. When they get back, they expect the kids to have the same grade and to be able to start where they left off. It's amazing! And it happens all the time. There are the few kids who are really trying to get ahead in school, go to college etc..... but they are NOT the majority.

Every year it gets worse and worse. Now the school takes 3 weeks off at Christmas because to many kids disappear for a month at that time!

Living in an area that has a very large illegal alien population I see firsthand the effects. We won't even start talking about the number of pollution spewing, non-registered, illegally driven vehicles that you see. It's amazing, it truly is.

Let those who are so certain that services to illegals be free step up and use all your money to sponsor families. I'm darned tired of shelling mine out. :angryfire

MaryRose

Specializes in ER, ICU, L&D, OR.

And how could you close the borders

I guess you could use some of the military

just bring them home where they belong, dont keep them in Iraq and afghanistan

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
As nice as it would be to just share our healthcare with the whole world for free...in reality, there are only so many slices in a pie!

The money to pay for all this has to come from somewhere. My vote would be to close the borders, stop paying for free healthcare and free education to anyone who is not a here legally. Get healthcare taken care of for our own citizens and then let's deal with the rest of the world.

How far will your own income go if you do not budget and prioritize??

I'm for militarizing our borders, and allowing migration with worker visas and or sponsorships. If the family is guaranteed support before entering the country, then come on in. Glad to meet ya. If not, then the truth is I can't afford for you to come.

Our country cannot support the whole world..... like it or not, it's reality.

For those already here, those with jobs and income to support their families should be allowed to stay. Those who don't, need to be shipped back. Anyone who crossed the borders illegally took the chance that they may get shipped back, so this shouldn't be a big surprise.

Also regarding IRS and taxation...let me tell you how the scenario worked at a manufacturing compny I worked for. The workers take the maximum deductions possible out of paychecks ...... then after our company had submitted info to IRS for taxes, we would be notified that "XXXXX"'s social security card was invalid. Gee... guess who had already moved on to the next job! So he paid the minimal amount then could not be found to pay what he really owed.

So YES they are cheating on paying their own fair share. I've personally seen it done. I would love to only be paying taxes at that rate! Oh yes.... state taxes on purchased goods.... whoopee. That certainly doesn't cover the costs of the social services and education we have to shell out for them.

My husband teaches at a high school that is primarily hispanic with a large percentage of immigrant kids. The kids frequently miss many days of school (no not for working in the fields) and the parents are not involved. Truancy is a big issue and they feel that the education should be tailored to them an their schedules. The whole family is going to Mexico for a month so Junior misses school. When they get back, they expect the kids to have the same grade and to be able to start where they left off. It's amazing! And it happens all the time. There are the few kids who are really trying to get ahead in school, go to college etc..... but they are NOT the majority.

Every year it gets worse and worse. Now the school takes 3 weeks off at Christmas because to many kids disappear for a month at that time!

Living in an area that has a very large illegal alien population I see firsthand the effects. We won't even start talking about the number of pollution spewing, non-registered, illegally driven vehicles that you see. It's amazing, it truly is.

Let those who are so certain that services to illegals be free step up and use all your money to sponsor families. I'm darned tired of shelling mine out. :angryfire

MaryRose

ITA....in this area, I can surely be rightly accused of holding the conservative point of view. Any imbecile can do the math; we cannot afford it anymore. I wish gov't would see it as we do.

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
And how could you close the borders

I guess you could use some of the military

just bring them home where they belong, dont keep them in Iraq and afghanistan

got to agree....just let em do it AFTER my husband retires rofl..... NO desire to live on the MEX border here!!! :rotfl:

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