we've been having heated - but not yet angry - discussions

Nurses General Nursing

Published

regarding the provision of medical services to undocumented residents - illegal aliens. As students, we've had the opportunity this semester to have clinical experiences that include being with community nurses as they make well-baby visits to the new parents. Seems as if we've all noticed a vast percentage have been to undocumented families.

We're a divided bunch. Some of us can't afford insurance while in school and yet see these families recieving services that they can't get. We've discussed the morals of providing health care to all/any who are in need. The ever-present problems of limited budgeting. Today it was mentioned about the helicopter crash this weekend in Texas. An undocumented mother and her ill child were being flown somewhere for treatment when the helicopter went down. Pilot, mother, baby died. The nurse was critically injured.

A long-time L&D nurse at one of the local hospitals commented when I asked her what her thoughts were (she has some interesting experiences as a Peace Corp nurse in South America, a more global view of nursing than is usually seen here in the midwest) "Well, I've never had to do a drug test on an Hispanic mother, I've never had to call in family services for suspected abuse. I have done these many, many times for 'our own white trailer trash' American residents." She'd rather see the young families have a chance at a healthy start.

It's a puzzlement to me. I'm not sure how I feel about this. Much of my concern is linked to budget. I just see a greater and greater drain on an extremely overtaxed system already. If we have to limit our services - should not our own citizens recieve the first services available?

arghhhhhhhhhhhhh - these ethical discussions make my head spin sometimes. I think I know what I believe and then someone makes a good point and I have to reconsider what I have already concluded to be true.

I feel like Eeyore.... think, think, think, think, think

Who is paying for all these free services? You and I are...the legal Americans who work to support the have nots/willnots and freeloaders. Until enough people want this changed, it will be business as usual.

Documented or not, people deserve the right to good health care. To me , there should be no ethical dilema. We as healthcare providers do just that, we PROVIDE CARE!!! It doesn't matter who a person is, what race they are, or if they are documented or not. I wholeheartedly believe that the day a healthcare professional question if they should be providing care or not based on the fact that the people are documented or not, then that should be the day that the healthcare provider step down as such!!!

Was it the fault of the undocumented mother that the helicopter crashed? ABSOLUTELY NOT! It was an ACCIDENT! This mother only wanted what any other mother would want, and that was for her child to have the healthcare that was needed!!!

Your L&D nurse is 100% correct in her assessment of Hispanic mothers. They are here with their families just trying to have a better life. We have a large population of Hispanics where I live. Never once have I seen one abuse their child, or get arrested for drugs. It is a daily occurence for the caucasians.

Personally, I am appalled that any health care provider would even question whether or not care should be provided to ANYONE! The day that happens should be the day that healthcare provider quit healthcare.

Best post I've had the pleasure to read...way to go hermano...or is it hermana? :)
Specializes in Inpatient Acute Rehab.
Who is paying for all these free services? You and I are...the legal Americans who work to support the have nots/willnots and freeloaders. Until enough people want this changed, it will be business as usual.

You have a very good, very valid point.

However, it is not just illegals that put our economy in such a mess. What about the legal citizens whom sit at home day after day, month after month, year after year, that stay at home and have a baby every 10 to 12 months , just so they can collect free food, houseing, healthcare, and a monthly check?

What about the many, many prisoners whom we support with our tax dollars?

They get free EVERYTHING, and if it isn't provided to them, then they have the right to once again use our tax dollars to SUE???

Add up what the total of these 2 valid points cost us and compare them to what illegals cost us. Which do you think would be more?

Also, these people who have numerous babies to collect more welfare, and our prison population contribute ZILCH to our economy. At least the illegals that are here are working, taxes are getting taken from their pay, and they do not have the chance to get these taxes back like many of us do, because

they cannot legally file a tax return. So whose tax dollars are getting used for free????

Specializes in 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER.

Call me judgemental, but i have a huge problem with being a single female who can't afford health insurance and supposedly makes too much to qualify for the free clinic, yet i see plenty of people in my town, in this country illegally, who can waltz right in for a checkup. Meanwhile i have to wait until i feel like death warmed over and take a trip to the ER to get antibiotics, and expect at least a $300 bill to arrive in the mail. Nevermind i'm paying taxes for the crap OTHER people can use. :(

(Any of these Urgent Care clinics want payment before you leave, therefore i can't afford THAT either)

Specializes in ED, Tele, Psych.

what does everyone think of the two-tier model for healthcare delivery?

There has to be a line drawn somewhere.

There is only so much money available...... it's ludicrous to think that anyone and everyone can come for free healthcare, free education and free monetary supplements.

It doesn't work.

Close our borders, issue work visa's for those with guaranteed jobs. If you can prove support for your family members, then allow them to join you. Allow migration with sponsorship.

Living in an area with an extremely high rate of illegal aliens, I see firsthand the effects they bring with them. NO thank you. We are seen as a free ride and frankly I am tired of paying for it.

Close our borders before it's too late.

MaryRose

How much are you willing to pay for the tomato you bought at the grocery atore? If all the illegals were paid minimum wage (and that is what they would be entitled to) your grocery bill would be unaffordable. Then what? Do you really think that closing the borders, deporting, or even making all illegals, legal citizens is the answer? It's not, due to the economic impact that the illegal migrant worker contributes to our economy. You think you can't afford health care now? There would be no money left after paying the grocery bill. Going out to eat? Not an option. It would cripple our economy. The money sucked out of education and our health system, which is all they get b/c they don't qualify for govt asst like food stamps and AFDC, is far less than it costs to keep them here illegally.

And, Don't you think our govt could keep illegals out if it wanted to? Of course they could! But, they don't want to do that for very good reasons.

You have to understand that the illegal migrants generate more money for our economy than what it costs to educate their children and give them health care. Giving them health care is a human rights issue. They are going to get it b/c it's the right thing to do. Americans are not prone to turning people away when they seek help. Our local food banks are feeding the families through donations from private people. The illegal poor are in a very good position, especially compaired to whence they came. It's hard to feel to bad for them when you realize they have some sort of shelter, food in their bellies, education for their children, and some of the best health care in the world. Sure it's a form of slavery when it comes right down to it but they choose to be here for their american dream of food, shelter, clothing, education, health care. It's a win situation for them.

It is not fair that they get care in our health depts but so can you. Most health depts work on a sliding scale. The more you make the more you pay. I have used the health dept even recently, I pay full price. The poor migrant pays nothing and the student payed 1/2 price. What's not fair about that?

The migrant gets a bill too, they just don't pay it but if they give a real name, it ruins thier credit, just like it would ruin yours. Seems fair to me. It's your choice to use the ER and pay full price. Go to a Dr. and pay them upfront to avoid high ER bills. OK, not everyone has 40 or 50 bucks sometimes, but it I'd pawn anything to get care if I needed it bad enough. There are ways. I've been poor, know what it's like, used free clinics and health depts, food centers, food stamps, and mcd. Anyone can choose to leave that life behind through education, motivation, and perserverance. I know what it's like to make $10 too much per month to qualify for much needed assistance. It stinks, but they have to draw the line somewhere.

There is also many places that will pre pay you part of your paycheck, set it up as a buffer for emergencies. We americans can be very creative when need be. There is always a way. I cleaned apts for extra income while attending school and that was on top of my FT job. Don't complain about others. Focus on you and what you can do for yourself. Life is not fair, especially when it comes to taxes and where our money is spent by the govt.

The illegals are going nowhere. They are here to stay and for good reason. Some areas are hit harder than others by what they take from us tax paying citizens, but in the end we could hardly make it without them. Show me an american born citizen who would go out in the baking sun for 10 hours a day, for 50 cents a bushel. Not gonna happen. Your tomato would cost 5 bucks!

Your taxes would go up to pay the approx. $30 billion in tax credits to the poor migrant families if they were all legal. Taxes up even more to house them at our standards, food stamps, AFDC, and the list goes on and on. We are talking three digit billions here. There are over 5.2 million illegals here and most of them poor.

My Mom always said, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

This post is not directed at any one individule. I'm not flaming any one person here. It is made as a general comment in response to all posts here on this thread.

How much are you willing to pay for the tomato you bought at the grocery atore? If all the illegals were paid minimum wage (and that is what they would be entitled to) your grocery bill would be unaffordable. Then what? Do you really think that closing the borders, deporting, or even making all illegals, legal citizens is the answer? It's not, due to the economic impact that the illegal migrant worker contributes to our economy. You think you can't afford health care now? There would be no money left after paying the grocery bill. Going out to eat? Not an option. It would cripple our economy. The money sucked out of education and our health system, which is all they get b/c they don't qualify for govt asst like food stamps and AFDC, is far less than it costs to keep them here illegally.

And, Don't you think our govt could keep illegals out if it wanted to? Of course they could! But, they don't want to do that for very good reasons.

You have to understand that the illegal migrants generate more money for our economy than what it costs to educate their children and give them health care. Giving them health care is a human rights issue. They are going to get it b/c it's the right thing to do. Americans are not prone to turning people away when they seek help. Our local food banks are feeding the families through donations from private people. The illegal poor are in a very good position, especially compaired to whence they came. It's hard to feel to bad for them when you realize they have some sort of shelter, food in their bellies, education for their children, and some of the best health care in the world. Sure it's a form of slavery when it comes right down to it but they choose to be here for their american dream of food, shelter, clothing, education, health care. It's a win situation for them.

It is not fair that they get care in our health depts but so can you. Most health depts work on a sliding scale. The more you make the more you pay. I have used the health dept even recently, I pay full price. The poor migrant pays nothing and the student payed 1/2 price. What's not fair about that?

The migrant gets a bill too, they just don't pay it but if they give a real name, it ruins thier credit, just like it would ruin yours. Seems fair to me. It's your choice to use the ER and pay full price. Go to a Dr. and pay them upfront to avoid high ER bills. OK, not everyone has 40 or 50 bucks sometimes, but it I'd pawn anything to get care if I needed it bad enough. There are ways. I've been poor, know what it's like, used free clinics and health depts, food centers, food stamps, and mcd. Anyone can choose to leave that life behind through education, motivation, and perserverance. I know what it's like to make $10 too much per month to qualify for much needed assistance. It stinks, but they have to draw the line somewhere.

There is also many places that will pre pay you part of your paycheck, set it up as a buffer for emergencies. We americans can be very creative when need be. There is always a way. I cleaned apts for extra income while attending school and that was on top of my FT job. Don't complain about others. Focus on you and what you can do for yourself. Life is not fair, especially when it comes to taxes and where our money is spent by the govt.

The illegals are going nowhere. They are here to stay and for good reason. Some areas are hit harder than others by what they take from us tax paying citizens, but in the end we could hardly make it without them. Show me an american born citizen who would go out in the baking sun for 10 hours a day, for 50 cents a bushel. Not gonna happen. Your tomato would cost 5 bucks!

Your taxes would go up to pay the approx. $30 billion in tax credits to the poor migrant families if they were all legal. Taxes up even more to house them at our standards, food stamps, AFDC, and the list goes on and on. We are talking three digit billions here. There are over 5.2 million illegals here and most of them poor.

My Mom always said, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

This post is not directed at any one individule. I'm not flaming any one person here. It is made as a general comment in response to all posts here on this thread.

VERY WELL SAID!!! MAYBE IF THE CITIZENS HERE ARE WILLING TO DO THE JOBS THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS HAVE, EMPLOYERS WOULDN'T HAVE TO HIRE THE UNDOCUMENTED ONES.

Specializes in Inpatient Acute Rehab.
Best post I've had the pleasure to read...way to go hermano...or is it hermana? :)

It's hermana.... although I am caucasian. My husband is of Mexican descent.

:) :) :)

Specializes in Inpatient Acute Rehab.
VERY WELL SAID!!! MAYBE IF THE CITIZENS HERE ARE WILLING TO DO THE JOBS THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS HAVE, EMPLOYERS WOULDN'T HAVE TO HIRE THE UNDOCUMENTED ONES.

BINGO!!!!!!!!

Specializes in ER, ICU, L&D, OR.

Everyone pays taxes

called sales tax even if just for their beer and smokes

8 per cent here in Texas

so everyone pays at least some one way ot another

Honestly, having been immersed in studies for the last few years, I've not kept up on current events and policy changes - such as Bush's recent announcement about 'grandfathering' in illegals. At least I think there's going to be some kind of forgiveness. Like I said, I've kept up with next to nothing concerning national/world events. Nursing school has been a big enough challenge to me.

But after reading everyone's posts I see that my thoughts are falling right about down the middle of what's been posted. As a nurse, (and as the individual I was before I became a nurse), I expect to provide the best care possible to whomever is in my facility/agency/organization. I don't think there's much debate for me ... I've chosen to be a care giver, so that's what I will do.

As a person, a citizen...I think when school is over in May I will have to do some studying about the issues related to immigration. In my area of the country there are more and more illegals living here. How that will affect the services that are provided for all and how those services will be funded is a question.

Just as I must budget my own expenses, if we as a nation are going to provide for anyone who is within our borders then we'll have to prioritize our available finances. Who decides, that will be an issue for the next election, huh?

And that's a whole other message line! ;)

Thanks everyone for discussing this and causing me to think beyond my med-surg studies! :p

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