we've been having heated - but not yet angry - discussions

[IowaCindy]

regarding the provision of medical services to undocumented residents - illegal aliens. As students, we've had the opportunity this semester to have clinical experiences that include being with community nurses as they make well-baby visits to the new parents. Seems as if we've all noticed a vast percentage have been to undocumented families.

We're a divided bunch. Some of us can't afford insurance while in school and yet see these families recieving services that they can't get. We've discussed the morals of providing health care to all/any who are in need. The ever-present problems of limited budgeting. Today it was mentioned about the helicopter crash this weekend in Texas. An undocumented mother and her ill child were being flown somewhere for treatment when the helicopter went down. Pilot, mother, baby died. The nurse was critically injured.

A long-time L&D nurse at one of the local hospitals commented when I asked her what her thoughts were (she has some interesting experiences as a Peace Corp nurse in South America, a more global view of nursing than is usually seen here in the midwest) "Well, I've never had to do a drug test on an Hispanic mother, I've never had to call in family services for suspected abuse. I have done these many, many times for 'our own white trailer trash' American residents." She'd rather see the young families have a chance at a healthy start.

It's a puzzlement to me. I'm not sure how I feel about this. Much of my concern is linked to budget. I just see a greater and greater drain on an extremely overtaxed system already. If we have to limit our services - should not our own citizens recieve the first services available?

arghhhhhhhhhhhhh - these ethical discussions make my head spin sometimes. I think I know what I believe and then someone makes a good point and I have to reconsider what I have already concluded to be true.

I feel like Eeyore.... think, think, think, think, think

[JedsMom, ASN, RN]

AMEN to Mattsmom81 and Mryrose couldn't have said it better myself.

[mattsmom81]

I know quite a few reservists and active military personel who would be happy to guard our borders, actually...and IMO it would be a great service provided to their country. Not every military person is overseas in acute battle situations. Many are on bases in less essential roles. I (and so would the border patrolmen I know) would welcome a harder look at our military assisting in patrolling borders...even in a rotational service type arrangement. Our border police are too few in numbers to be effective and our borders are a revolving door for illegals sneaking in. Scarier thought than ever since 9/11.

[SmilingBluEyes]

As dangerous as border patrol work is, it may well need to become a military duty assignment. And I agree, we need to tighten em up bigtime.....for security as well as illegal immigration concerns.

[nursesarah]

i always find these threads interesting. i'm from canada where, obviously, this is not a problem, because the government pays for the majority of all patient's healthcare (major misconception, however, is that it is free which technically it's not. there are stuff we need to pay for). and we undoubtedly have one of the best healthcare systems in the world, despite cutbacks. but my point is, how could anyone consider not treating a patient in need just because they don't have insurance?

[MryRose]

I think it is even more ludicrous to enter a country illegally and then demand to be taken care of!

Oh and then lets talk about babies...... why is it they can't support 1 or 2 children but then have 2 or 3 more???? Maybe if they HAD to pay for the medical costs of birth alone it might stop the amount of welfare being doled out because now they have American babies... and we have to now support them, and the rest of the family too.

1980, my daughter was born c-section...... we had no insurance.... it took us a year to pay off that medical bill. Yet there were mothers in the same hospital on the same floor getting a free ride. Not fair!

The issue is clearly a monetary one. No matter what how you want to "spin" it, we simply do not have the money to do it.

And frankly, I am reeeeaaallly tired of paying for other people abusing my country.

You want to help?? Good... send your paycheck to a family in Mexico every month.... that will be one less family trying to move into my state.

MaryRose

[nursesarah]

yikes! so basically what you are saying is that someone who has lived in poverty their whole life, has come to america in the hopes of starting a new life for themselves, but can't get a job becuase maybe their english and education isn't great, and therefore can't afford birth control or abortions because of the expense isn't entitled to receive basic medical care? what, do u want these people to give birth in alleys somewhere? maybe...instead of the government spending so much money on deporting these "illegal aliens" they should spend a little money on ESL programs and job skills programs so that maybe the immigrants could actually get jobs and become so called "productive contributers to the economy".

so whatever happened to America, the Land of Opportunity?

[unknown99, BSN, RN]

yikes! so basically what you are saying is that someone who has lived in poverty their whole life, has come to america in the hopes of starting a new life for themselves, but can't get a job becuase maybe their english and education isn't great, and therefore can't afford birth control or abortions because of the expense isn't entitled to receive basic medical care? what, do u want these people to give birth in alleys somewhere? maybe...instead of the government spending so much money on deporting these "illegal aliens" they should spend a little money on ESL programs and job skills programs so that maybe the immigrants could actually get jobs and become so called "productive contributers to the economy".

so whatever happened to America, the Land of Opportunity?

MY SENTIMENTS EXACTLY!!!!!! Agree 100%!!!!!

[renerian, BSN, RN]

I have a hard enough time paying of the health care needs of my own family. I am tired of paying for health care for everyone else. 7 people's health care needs (insurance HMO) is very costly on top of our 950 per month premium. Many things are not even covered. I have had to do payment arrrangements many times. Heck I do not even go to the doc when I need to.

Before I became a nurse I had no insurance. You know what I worked my butt off to pay my medical bills, sometimes 2 jobs. I did it. I helped pay my dad's medical bills when he was dying. Right thing to do. If I knew I could not afford something I DID NOT GO.

Sorry that is not a popular response but it is the way it is,

renerian

[Energizer Bunny]

I have a hard enough time paying of the health care needs of my own family. I am tired of paying for health care for everyone else. 7 people's health care needs (insurance HMO) is very costly on top of our 950 per month premium. Many things are not even covered. I have had to do payment arrrangements many times. Heck I do not even go to the doc when I need to.

Before I became a nurse I had no insurance. You know what I worked my butt off to pay my medical bills, sometimes 2 jobs. I did it. I helped pay my dad's medical bills when he was dying. Right thing to do. If I knew I could not afford something I DID NOT GO.

Sorry that is not a popular response but it is the way it is,

renerian

Renerian...I agree with you completely! I cannot tell you how many times I have not gone to the dr. when I needed to. Now that I have little kids depending on me, I have had to make adjustments and go, but the bills are piling up and all I can do is make payments.

Our family is TRYING to make things work and we cannot get government help and then I see those people who have 7 or 8 children and just keep on having them so that they can GET more government help. I get absolutely furious about it. Why let more people in to use up more money that could go to people who are really trying to make their lives work? If the immigrants are so unhappy with their country, then they all need to get together to overthrow the government or something....don't bring more problems here! OIY! Okay, done being heated up now and I'm not apologizing for my thoughts when just yesterday I couldn't get food because we didn't have the money and my food stamp card wouldn't work.

(and yes for those of you out there ready to bash me, I am looking for a job though I don't know where I will find one that pays enough to make it worth putting the kids in daycare)

[movealong]

There is no perfect solution.

Speaking only for myself, I find it hard when I am dealing with patients without medical coverage or benefits. I do telephone triage and sometimes I get calls from the general public that hve no insurance.

I spoke to a man who is a diabetic, lost his job, couldn't afford cobra. He was out of his medications and of course his blood sugars were going sky high. I can send him to the ER for management of his immediate problems, but that certainly will not fix it for long. He needs his meds. I did what I could, told him about the patient assistance programs. But it left me empty. I didn't feel I was truly helping this gentleman.

It's very frustrating for me as a nurse. I still feel after 27 years of nursing that I am supposed to be there for the patient. That's just how it is for me.

You know, I live modestly. I have a small home for myself, nothing grand. I'm paying off the second new car I have ever owned in my life. When I start to feel like I don't have enough, I remind myself just how lucky I am. I have more than many people do worldwide. I personally don't need so much that I could not afford to see that others less forunate than myself have access to the basics for health care. I am for national care health system. I think we as a nation and a society, when looked upon in years to come, will be judged, in no small part, on this issue. That's my 2 cents.............

[MryRose]

yikes! so basically what you are saying is that someone who has lived in poverty their whole life, has come to america in the hopes of starting a new life for themselves, but can't get a job becuase maybe their english and education isn't great, and therefore can't afford birth control or abortions because of the expense isn't entitled to receive basic medical care? what, do u want these people to give birth in alleys somewhere? maybe...instead of the government spending so much money on deporting these "illegal aliens" they should spend a little money on ESL programs and job skills programs so that maybe the immigrants could actually get jobs and become so called "productive contributers to the economy".

so whatever happened to America, the Land of Opportunity?

Lets accurately portray the situation....

The poor people are illegally crossing the borders of my country, then complaining they cannot get jobs because they are illegal.... amazingly enough Do get FREE MEDICAL and FREE EDUCATION then can't manage to have enough common sense to not have unprotected sex and create more mouths for AMERICA to feed.

And you want to know what is wrong with this situation??????

I happen to live in an area INUNDATED by illegal aliens (YES THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE). There are FREE ESL classes and FREE family practice clinics for them. They are advertized on English and Hispanic radio stations, billboards and television.

Yet STILL they bear children they DO NOT have the money to take care of!!!

Yes they should be rounded up, and deported...... they DO NOT HAVE ANY RIGHTS in this country. They are ILLEGAL!

If you, and others, are so passionate about taking care of the poor from other countries, great! That's wonderful! Join Peace Corps, send your paychecks to a family in Mexico or any disadvantaged country of your choice. Better yet, why don't you organize a group to go to that country and make changes so they can take care of themselves.

America is but a small patch on this planet...... the rest of the world will have to take care of itself. We absolutely cannot afford to bring in every stray that walks onto our land.

Having been born and raised in California I've lived the effects first hand.

We have to stand up and say ENOUGH!

This is simple mathematics and physics......

Just how many people can you pull into a boat before you all sink to the bottom???

The ship (The Land of Opportunity) is FULL!

[mattsmom81]

America REMAINS the land of opportunity. But it is high time the US make sure people coming here have a way to work and support THEMSELVES and are coming here for the right reasons, not as criminals, troublemakers or freeloaders. They need to do it legally. 'Opportunity' does not mean a free ride. It means we all start out with the same POTENTIAL and can work to get where we want.

Patients without insurance DO get free emergency stabilization and care. And all facilities provide probono service in this way. But as mentioned, where will we draw the line? Healthcare is expensive. But then again I don't look at the full gamut of healthcare as a basic human right. It is a privilege. There are free clinics, soup kitchens, shelters and churches everywhere but too many people feel entitled to be taken care of here in America, IMO. They show up in every emergency room demanding care. We have to set limits.

Send the illegals back and don't let anyone in who can't carry their own weight, I say.

Welfare benefits (of ALL types to ALL people) need to be short term and they be forced to work at something gainful. Taking freebies is not good for anyone's spirit anyway...we need to encourage independence, not dependence on the government.

Those who think we should put all our tax dollars into human services instead of the military are being more than a tad naive about what this world is about, IMO.