Published
Before we get into it, I'm going into first year nursing... but I'm not some young kid. I'm 34, married with a family, studied philosophy in my early 20's, and lived well below the poverty line for my entire life. I'm saying this to avoid any fallacious arguments stemming from status or authority.
Now that's out of the way...
Why is health care not a right?
It's not a right because it requires others to fund your health care costs. You do not have a right to the money of other people.
What about those in need of health care?
We all love helping people, and that's important. Which is why there are countless organizations, churches, synagogues, companies, online charitable organizations, and other opportunities for your access.
If health care is a right, it's immoral.
A socialist view of health care requires the theft of citizens money through taxation to fund your health care needs. Just because I need health care does not mean I can take money of others, even when done through governmental force.
What's the difference between access to things like fire services, and health care services? They're all services aren't they?
The difference is that citizens who pay for services should receive services. Taxation pays for fire services, people are therefore owed that service.Consider, outside of municipalities where services aren't paid for, firefighting is volunteer, or paid for out of pocket. At least that's how it works in Canada...
When is health care a right then?
When you pay for it, however, it's a contractual right. Not a human right. I'm owed the service because I paid for it, that's it.
Who's responsible to take care of me then?
You are. Crazy idea right?
Are there exceptions?
Obviously, those with zero capacity to care for themselves.
I suspect heading into a Canadian nursing program with my views will be an interesting experience.
Is it irresponsible eating to eat one fry? What about 10 fries? How would you go about denying the CABG for the patient ? Who would decide what is good or bad? I wish life were ad simple as the OP would suggest. Then someone who argues like a college kid with absolutely no experience could tell us how to set up a new system anew. I kinda wish I were around to see how he applied his simplistic philosophy major stages to a real life turd of a health care system. Our congressmen are verrrrry happy with their free health care.
It would help if there was less fallacious reasoning on this forum. Why is it necessary to have experience to argue health care isn't a fundamental human right? I don't see what one has to do with the other...
Our congressmen are verrrrry happy with their free health care.
(Just for the record, members of congress don't have "free health care." They purchase the coverage of their choice for themselves and their families on the ACA exchange. It's written into the ACA. The Dems included that in the bill so that members of Congress would have "skin in the game" on healthcare.
Even before the ACA, they didn't have "free health care." The president and all members of congress purchased the health care coverage of their choice, that best suited the needs of them and their families, from the range of coverage option offered by the Federal Employees Health Benefits program, same as every other Federal employee, from the president to the people typing and mopping floors at the VA hospitals or Social Security offices.)
It would help if there was less fallacious reasoning on this forum. Why is it necessary to have experience to argue health care isn't a fundamental human right? I don't see what one has to do with the other...[/quoteBecause the real world doesn't conform to academia. BTW, the ACA payments if members of Congress are subsidized (by taxpayers) to the tune if 72%. Pretty close to free.
Because the real world doesn't conform to academia. BTW, the ACA payments if members of Congress are subsidized (by taxpayers) to the tune if 72%. Pretty close to free.
Yes, the same as the Federal government partially subsidizes the healthcare costs for all other Federal employees through the FEHB program. Same as my employer, and probably yours, partially subsidizes the cost of our health insurance. Do you begrudge every Federal employee their salary, benefits, and health coverage, paid for with taxpayer dollars, or is it just members of congress?
War is not a right any others pay for it. We pay for it rather frequently I would add. I disagree with your post in its' entirety then again I HAVE been bankrupted from anticipated medical bills being foolish enough to be in the pathway of an uninsured pick-up truck driver 10 years ago. In conservative-thinkland I am sure I am at fault somehow...
Yes, the same as the Federal government partially subsidizes the healthcare costs for all other Federal employees through the FEHB program. Same as my employer, and probably yours, partially subsidizes the cost of our health insurance. Do you begrudge every Federal employee their salary, benefits, and health coverage, paid for with taxpayer dollars, or is it just members of congress?
Not at all. Was addressing your implication that this particular group paid themselves for health insurance that was not subsidized. If he believes that he will come to US, live with a capitalist health care model...well, that would be wrong.
Did you go to public school? Others paid for that too. I know I pay school taxes and have no kids in school. When I did they went to parochial school and... I still paid those darn school taxes! Why is education a right, but healthcare is not? Education enhances one's life. Healthcare sustains it. In the framework of my nursing education program, healthcare would trump (no pun intended) education as a more basic need. There was a time when only the elite went to school to learn reading and writing. Most of my ancestors were illiterate peasants and farmers in England and Ireland. Some time ago, our country found that universal education was valuable to advance society. That was revolutionary! Other first world countries have decided that universal healthcare is valuable to advance society. Indeed they are ahead of the US in healthcare metrics like infant and maternal mortality. To me, the evidence says universal healthcare probably is beneficial. It certainly is if you have had to declare bankruptcy to pay your hospital bills. I disagree with you. I am not insulting you. I am merely telling how I have arrived to a different opinion on this subject.
You've argued that healthcare is different than something like use of a fire department because fire departments are paid for by taxes, so those who pay into those taxes should have access to fire departments, but in Canada healthcare is paid for through taxes, primarily the PST and GST which is almost impossible not to pay into, I've paid into the Canadian healthcare system through PST and GST and I am not Canadian and do not live there.
Why have you paid those taxes?
If you do not believe health care should be for all you will not fair well here in the United States. Emergency rooms are full of people who cannot pay (and yes some of them actually cannot scrape up the money to pay anything). For example, they may have no electricity to keep their refridgerators running to keep their insulin in which is why they are at the emergency room because they cannot be turned away. Out of curiosity, why America?
But a lot of people do game the welfare system. It seems there's always money for hair weaves, smokes, fancy fingernails, and cell phones. Why is there never money for medical care? They get
subsidized housing but don't/can't pay even the small amount they are supposed to pay. Their kids
get free or very low cost lunch at school and breakfast, too - on the taxpayer. Yes, I'm generalizing, please forgive me. Often enough, though, these things do happen.
I have worked with people who had insurance through the job but didn't know how to use it - find a private doctor instead of using the ER, for example.
OP, if you are granted entry to America, you will see a lot of things that do not set well with you,
such as I have described above, like corporate welfare, bailouts of wealthy banks, carmakers, and other
frat brothers of those in power.
Good luck in school.
Be careful about expressing your dissenting views to just anyone. A LOT of people can't deal with it.
Quote from lindseylpn"I don't see how someone can want to be a nurse and lack the empathy for someone that might need but, can't afford their healthcare costs. I absolutely believe that healthcare is a right!"
https://allnurses.com/nursing-activism-healthcare/health-care-is-1117311-page7.html#post9556602
So your argument is essentially:1) All nurses are socialists.
2) You're not a socialist.
3) Therefore, why are you interested in nursing?
I don't lack empathy, I realize life can be super crappy, I get it.
Just because I don't agree with the conclusion though, since my life is crappy, I therefore have a right to your money... doesn't mean I don't have an interest in helping people, and doesn't mean I lack empathy.
Since you added a "?" I will give my answer.
The leap from believing healthcare is a right to your three part listed conclusion makes no sense to me.
I believe you are a normal person with an ability for empathy and compassion.
I think if you choose to continue a nursing career you will be able to do your best for each assigned patient regardless of whether they are insured, have money, are alcoholic, addicted, lazy, mean and abusive to you, dirty, smelly, weigh 500 pounds, have committed crimes, or are just a child whose loving parents are on the dole.
I hope and pray I'm right.
Socialist political beliefs are not necessary for compassion. Nurses need be able to work with and care for people of all beliefs.
subee, MSN, CRNA
1 Article; 6,140 Posts
Is it irresponsible eating to eat one fry? What about 10 fries? How would you go about denying the CABG for the patient ? Who would decide what is good or bad? I wish life were ad simple as the OP would suggest. Then someone who argues like a college kid with absolutely no experience could tell us how to set up a new system anew. I kinda wish I were around to see how he applied his simplistic philosophy major stages to a real life turd of a health care system. Our congressmen are verrrrry happy with their free health care.