HCA StaRN contract

Nurses General Nursing

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what happens if you break the HCA starRN contract? i hear you’re not allowed to work for any other HCA facility ever again. is this true? what if you pay off the money in full? has anybody ever broken the contract then went off to work for HCA again in the future ? what if you leave as a nurse but then come back to work as a social worker or pharmacist or something, would the blacklist still apply to you even if ur not returning as an RN again? also does breaking a contract look bad to other employers?

Specializes in ICU, trauma, neuro.

Then again how can I criticize a company that has been named the World's most ethical company on multiple occasions https://hcatodayblog.com/2019/02/26/ten-time-honoree-hca-healthcare-named-a-2019-worlds-most-ethical-company/ .  Indeed, at the same time they were being accused of performing heart procedures on patients that did not need them https://www.palmbeachpost.com/article/20160217/lifestyle/812039909 .

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Specializes in retired LTC.

mursegoals, ADN - I admire and commend your ethics for fulfilling your end of that lousy contract. I truly understand your reasoning.

So sorry you had to learn such a heavy handed life lesson.

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Does anyone know the process of breaking the contract and who to contact and so on? 

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Specializes in ICU, trauma, neuro.
1 hour ago, HoustonNurse72 said:

Does anyone know the process of breaking the contract and who to contact and so on? 

I would just contact HR. I suspect that if one employed the services of an attorney and threatened legal action that HCA might bend rather than enforce the contract. Also, if one is placed on a "do not hire list" (and can prove it) they might also be able to bring defamation or slander allegations against HCA (again perhaps there might even be some class action potential here especially in areas of the country like Texas where HCA particular uses this tactic).  Sometimes, the credible threat of legal action can be almost as effective as actually filing or winning a case given that companies wish to avoid unpleasant news that can affect their stock prices.

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Specializes in retired LTC.

myoglobin - I respectfully disagree re obt a lawyer with the intention of 'fighting the contract'. I would offer that such a huge successful conglomerate business like HCA has some mucho high priced legal eagles in its cadre of consultants who have fine-tuned its P&P for iron-clad 'legal-ness'

MAYBE a class action could raise their eyebrows, but a single nurse ...?  I doubt it. You do make comment re unions needing to step up and be vocal re those exploitive contracts. And yes, I agree there.

 

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Specializes in oncology.
On 11/25/2020 at 9:42 AM, newnurse2434 said:

ou can bet I'll be hiring a lawyer if they come after me to pay them back

Did you have a meeting with HR and provide your experience in writing at your Exit interview? (and ask for a reply in writing)

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Specializes in ICU, trauma, neuro.
1 hour ago, amoLucia said:

myoglobin - I respectfully disagree re obt a lawyer with the intention of 'fighting the contract'. I would offer that such a huge successful conglomerate business like HCA has some mucho high priced legal eagles in its cadre of consultants who have fine-tuned its P&P for iron-clad 'legal-ness'

MAYBE a class action could raise their eyebrows, but a single nurse ...?  I doubt it. You do make comment re unions needing to step up and be vocal re those exploitive contracts. And yes, I agree there.

 

Well, I do know nurses at my former hospital who obtained "thousands" based on the "legal threat" of suing our HCA (individual hospital) for forcing us to clock out for lunch, but not being able to actually take a break (do to the fact that there was no one available to watch patients safely as everyone else was so busy with their massive assignments). Of course the hospital went right back to their old ways and still requires clocking out or providing a "valid reason" for not clocking out which has to be signed by the charge nurse. In practice, people who tried to use this process got "counseled".  In ten years at that facility I had maybe 15 lunch breaks but clocked out for it every night. Still the point is that the hospital paid probably over 100K to employees because they were afraid of lawsuits, publicity, and perhaps state labor violations.  I have seen multiple instances of HCA paying many thousands in settlements to families when "bad things occur" even before lawsuits are filed because it's cheaper to "pay out a million" and do things wrong than to pay 10million per year for the safe staffing and processes that would reduce these sort of things. For HCA cutting corners, isn't a mistake it's a business plan.  Nurses, doctors, and patients are just "fodder" to be burned on the alter of their profits and bonuses to their administrators.  I truly believe they are one of the most corrupt organizations not only in health care, but in all corporations in America.

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Specializes in retired LTC.

myoglobin - those nurses who were compensated at your former facility had the strength & threat of federal labor law violations behind them. So a conciliatory payout was prob negotiated to avoid a bigger inquiry into illegal country-wide labor law violations. Another thought - was there union involvement?

But for some nurse to sign an in-house contract and then try to back out, doesn't carry the same import or weight as the labor law violations. HCA stands to gain $ every time someone wants out. I believe those contracts to be legal. Oh well, so sorry that the nurse signer doesn't like it NOW!! Buyers' remorse! But it was a signed contract. Like I said earlier, I would think that HCA is smart enough to provide legal contracts.

 

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Specializes in ICU, trauma, neuro.
53 minutes ago, amoLucia said:

myoglobin - those nurses who were compensated at your former facility had the strength & threat of federal labor law violations behind them. So a conciliatory payout was prob negotiated to avoid a bigger inquiry into illegal country-wide labor law violations. Another thought - was there union involvement?

But for some nurse to sign an in-house contract and then try to back out, doesn't carry the same import or weight as the labor law violations. HCA stands to gain $ every time someone wants out. I believe those contracts to be legal. Oh well, so sorry that the nurse signer doesn't like it NOW!! Buyers' remorse! But it was a signed contract. Like I said earlier, I would think that HCA is smart enough to provide legal contracts.

 

Well here is a link to one union that is challenging the contracts at their facility on the grounds they were not included in the union facility contract:

https://www.nationalnursesunited.org/sites/default/files/nnu/files/pdf/flyers/HCA/VRMC Star RN BU 062515.pdf .  Also, I would argue that these contracts should be considered not enforceable for the following reasons:

a.  They use their monopolistic like "market share" to create an employment environment where a newer nurse often as little choice but to accept one of these onerous contracts.

b.  I would also argue that these contracts are "unconscionable"  or so one sided due to major differences in bargaining power. Indeed other elements in the HCA bargaining position might include the following

Undue Influence: This is where one party exercises (HCA) that exercises unreasonable pressure in order to get the other party to sign the contract (especially where one party takes advantage of the other in some way such as controlling many of the jobs in a given new RN market).

Duress: This where one party uses threats in order to get the other to agree to the contract terms. This can take the form of physical threats, or other types of threats (such as not releasing goods in the proper way until the other party signs) or implied threats that if a newer nurse doesn't accept these agreements they will not be able to find work elsewhere.

Unequal Bargaining Power: This occurs where one party has an unreasonable advantage of the other. This is usually proved if one party is aware that the other obviously did not understand the contract terms

Unfair Surprise: When the party who creates the contract includes a term in the contract without the other parties knowledge and is not within the other parties expectations.

I would go so far as to allege that there is "disparate impact" in these STAR RN contracts against women, minorities and those who are low on economic resources to the point that they may involve a federal civil rights violation. 

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Specializes in Hospital.
57 minutes ago, myoglobin said:

Well here is a link to one union that is challenging the contracts at their facility on the grounds they were not included in the union facility contract:

https://www.nationalnursesunited.org/sites/default/files/nnu/files/pdf/flyers/HCA/VRMC Star RN BU 062515.pdf .  Also, I would argue that these contracts should be considered not enforceable for the following reasons:

a.  They use their monopolistic like "market share" to create an employment environment where a newer nurse often as little choice but to accept one of these onerous contracts.

b.  I would also argue that these contracts are "unconscionable"  or so one sided due to major differences in bargaining power. Indeed other elements in the HCA bargaining position might include the following

Undue Influence: This is where one party exercises (HCA) that exercises unreasonable pressure in order to get the other party to sign the contract (especially where one party takes advantage of the other in some way such as controlling many of the jobs in a given new RN market).

Duress: This where one party uses threats in order to get the other to agree to the contract terms. This can take the form of physical threats, or other types of threats (such as not releasing goods in the proper way until the other party signs) or implied threats that if a newer nurse doesn't accept these agreements they will not be able to find work elsewhere.

Unequal Bargaining Power: This occurs where one party has an unreasonable advantage of the other. This is usually proved if one party is aware that the other obviously did not understand the contract terms

Unfair Surprise: When the party who creates the contract includes a term in the contract without the other parties knowledge and is not within the other parties expectations.

I would go so far as to allege that there is "disparate impact" in these STAR RN contracts against women, minorities and those who are low on economic resources to the point that they may involve a federal civil rights violation. 

Encouraging I am not the only one that feels this away. Thanks tribe. 

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Specializes in Psych, Hospice, Surgical unit, L&D/Postpartum.

question, has anyone heard of their StaRN periop 101 program? I have an interview for that coming up next week. Was wondering if it is worth it? 

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Specializes in school nurse.
13 hours ago, Erindel RN said:

question, has anyone heard of their StaRN periop 101 program? I have an interview for that coming up next week. Was wondering if it is worth it? 

You've read through this thread and are still considering HCA??

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