I started a RN-NP Program with the goal of becoming an NP. I am taking a break now working as an RN having completed the first part of the program.
I have experienced a lot of bullying in nursing school and working as a nurse. It is wearing me down. I know longer know if I want to be an NP because it seems there are some toxic issues in healthcare, plus the workload.
I do have 160,000 in debt with my undergrad and nursing school combined. Part of me wants to finish and do NP just so I can make more of an income and hopefully pay off my debt faster. And do what I always thought I wanted to do, before realizing how toxic healthcare can me. But part of me wants to go into another field, one that is more creative, and I won't likely encounter these issues as much. I have worked in other fields and did not experience any bulling, and have done research and found that it is more prevalent in healthcare.
You have to be tough to be in nursing. It's a rough profession with a lot of rough people. It's high pressure, and you definitely can't survive if you aren't a little scrappy.
WOW! Is scrappy? Man, you're like classic example of exactly what I am talking about.
Prob a huge jerk in real life who picks on the new ones.
23 hours ago, JKL33 said:
What kind of bullying and attacks are we talking about?
There's no shame in taking a deep look into it all. Worrying about uncovering a personal problem is the wrong way to look at it. Rather, we all have weaknesses and sometimes recognizing our own weaknesses and learning how to get past them can be relatively lucrative in terms of finances and long-term emotional well-being.
I say all of this without making a single excuse for those who try to control, manipulate and bully others. They have their own very significant problems!
These concepts are really important because they may have a lot of bearing on whether it makes sense for you to attempt to finish your training and work as a nurse practitioner. It isn't about a bunch of strangers (us) criticizing or faulting you; it's really about the mental process you should go through privately in order to make the best decision for yourself. ??
All of these responses are ***. I am talking about yelling and insulting. THIS ISN'T ABOUT MY WEAKNESSES. BULLYING IS BULLYING. WOW!.
Man I would not want to hang out with any of you in real life.
Specializes in Community Health, Med/Surg, ICU Stepdown.
I would advise not going into more debt for NP school unless you're completely sure you want to be an NP. If you hate nursing and there is a financially feasible way to return to a previous career or start a new one, that's an option. If you want to see if you can make nursing work since you have invested time and money into it, you could look into other types of nursing work or organizations. I've found the bullying stuff depends on the culture and staff of the specific unit. Even within the same hospital one floor can have a totally different vibe than another, aka one is toxic and the other has great teamwork. It may take a little job hopping to find the right fit.
Also there are areas of nursing that are more autonomous, like home health or case management or some of the work from home jobs discussed in other threads. I would start by deciding what kind of nursing jobs would be enjoyable/interesting and tolerable and look into those. Then if you find you enjoy nursing in the right setting, work for a bit and pay down debt. Then, see if you can shadow some NPs to make sure it's what you want. That could help you see what kind of NP you want to be and explore different organizations without having to sign on as an employee. Acute care is not for everyone, and that's OK. I did it for 5 years and found it wasn't for me = )
First of all, I'm sorry that you're being treated that way. As nurses, most of us are outward focused, so when we see someone who is the opposite as a co-worker, it can be difficult to make space for them. I've had co-workers who I've overheard in patient rooms talking about themselves and their lives ALL THE TIME with patients. That's fine, as long as they listen to the patient as long as they spend talking about themselves. It is about the patient.
I don't know why you're being bullied, but adults that I've met that claim to be bullied are often self-centered and short sighted. This might not be the case with you, but again, as someone else said, the common denominator is you. It doesn't make what they're doing to you right, but maybe you can change it. I really think the advice on a counsellor was really good advice. They can help you get to the bottom of why you're facing this frequently.
As far as NP school, I have about 20k student loans left. All credit card debt paid off, just house and car. I'd love to go back to school, but honestly, it's a huge unknown. I've seen people get their masters and never use it because they don't like the job their degree gets them so they work the floor with me at a slight pay bump. I'd like to go back myself, but I will not with student loan debt, and will never take a student loan again. It's predatory as ****. I don't regret that I got this far with them, but I will not go back to school unless I can pay for it out of pocket, and that will be feasible once student debt is gone.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Klone said it best. If everyone is a bully and everyone is someone you would not want to "hang out with" consider you may be the problem and not the rest of us.
I don't suggest you go back to school unless and until you can pay for it and not go further into the rabbit hole you are already in.
The two times in my life where I dealt with a bully were times of transition. One a new high school after going to a private school for eight years and next as an unsure, anxious new grad. I think bullies look for people they believe are vulnerable and target them. If you are able to fight back and stand up for yourself they will stop and probably move on to someone else.
In high school I was able to defend myself, also felt confident and starting over didn't bother me. As a new grad, I was vulnerable and anxious and was not able to fight back at work as I did in school.
My own thoughts are bullies are weak and looking for someone to take out their frustrations on. Also they are narcissists who see people in black and white and one may be on a pedestal and and another a scapegoat. If interested you can learn about narcissistic abuse and family dynamics on Youtube.
Emergent was not insulting you, but noting you need to be strong and assertive to survive and hopefully thrive in nursing. I sure learned to speak up and be assertive rather than be overworked or taken advantage of. You need this quality to be able to stand up for yourself with patients, coworkers and supervisors.
I've also witnessed family dynamics play out with coworkers such as if a bully reminds you of a family member who treated you like that, not saying that is your situation. A coworker dealt with a bully and she reminded her of her mother and that left her feeling powerless and speechless to fight back. However she finally reached her breaking point and sent a letter to her manager and CNO about the bullies behavior and management finally dealt with it
Specializes in CEN / Nurse Educator / Nurse Practitioner.
Interesting topic. I have been a nurse a little while and have not experienced any significant amount of bullying from nurses as a nurse. Physicians…another story. Though I did experience bullying from nurses when I was a respiratory therapist!
Next, I am so sorry you are experiencing this. I personally would not like to see you exit the profession. We need you so much. And you would make a great mentor in teaching other nurses how to respect and care one another. Look into Jean Watson’s Science of Caring. Toxic “eat your young” has been part of the nursing culture, but I thought we’d moved past it.
There must be something in you that loves nursing. Abandoning all the work you’ve put in, to change careers will be costly, not mention you will still be required to pay your nursing debt.
Consider dredging forward. Advanced practice is very rewarding and there are soooo many things you can do with your nursing education.
Your student loan debt is shocking, yet surprisingly common these days! I would be most concerned about paying down your debt. I wonder where it came from? Private colleges or for profit ones? How much of it is interest on the debt? What is the annual tuition for the NP Program and how much longer do you have to go to graduate? Do you have to find your own clinical preceptors? Where do you work? How much do you make and have you been taking advantage of all the overtime available these days?
Lately you have to be working for a health corp to have any chance of finding a Dr or NP to do your clinicals with. If you don't belong to one of the corps your options will be very limited. If you do and work days you will have a better chance as Dr's will get to know you and be more willing to help you out! Be as friendly as you can with them to network for future possibilities. Also with your coworkers to make friends and prove your bully wrong! Friendly and polite small talk and teamwork are positive ways you can counteract the bully's smear campaign!
I advise you to check out Dave Ramsey and take the drastic measures necessary to pay off your debt as quickly as possible. Live at home with your parents or with roommates to save money. Work lots of OT or a second job. Don't count on student loan forgiveness, which has a 98-99% rejection rate. While Biden's admin is promising improvements to help the majority who have been denied, I wouldn't want to count on it! I expect the Republican's to get back in power with the next election and they have made it clear they wanted to discontinue student loan forgiveness all together.
There are countless videos on Youtube on Dave Ramsey re debt, especially student loans. He also has books and an online or local class option called Financial Peace University. The one positive in this situation is that you can make good money in nursing to help pay the student loans off! Many others in your debt situation are not so fortunate.
I will list a couple other books re personal finance. Liz Weston's Deal With Your Debt and Your Credit Score, Eric Tyson's Personal Finance for Dummies and Smart Women Finish Rich by David Bach. Liz has a more flexible approach to debt, but given the extent of your student loans I would stress the Dave Ramsey approach. Still there is a lot of good info in her books and the others I've suggested.
I can't stress how important money management is to be able to pay off your student loans and start saving for an emergency fund and retirement. The wrong moves can cost you thousands, even tens of thousands over a lifetime and many people suffer due to lack of personal finance knowledge.
It is obscene to me that college students are allowed to take out these insane sums of money ie a mortgage, without personal finance education first so they really have some idea of what they are signing up for.
Also do you realize that your RN to NP loans are grad loans and the interest on the debt starts accumulating from day one. There is no grace period, although due to Covid there has been a temporary grace period. Grad loans also tend to carry much higher interest rates. I would suggest you make the minimum payments on all your loans, even during this grace period and then tackle the highest interest loans first to get out from under this albatross.
I wanted to drop by and say you have my sympathy. I am not in enrolled in an NP Program however I was a second degree nursing student. I didn't listen to those who told me to pay out of pocket and go to tech school for my ADN.
I also didn't make it a year working in the hospital. Granted I've worked in hospitals for over 8 years in various roles so I was accustomed to the politics and shift work. I was simply exhausted. So I took a huge pay cut and now work in a clinic. It's still very early on however I'm enjoying myself so far.
I have no idea how to even began tackling my student loans. I've debated between the snowball method vs throwing all extra payments at highest interest/largest loan. I'm grateful to be staying with family right now so that I can focus on paying loans. Although, I'd love me some freedom by having my own place again!
I echo that this is a lot of debt. For me, nursing was a second career, I was in the USN first. However, as a floor nurse, my lack of autonomy was in the end, the deciding factor to become an APRN. I'm happy that I did - the last 15 years have given me the autonomy I wanted.
That said, I've never been ''bullied" and personally I think the word is overused. However, have I been put down, made to feel less then a great provider or told I did something wrong? Yep. Not a big deal for me. I learned from my mistakes, promised not to behave as some have treated me and pushed thru.
In the end, you make your own happiness. Best wishes with your decisions.
I would also suggest that if everywhere you go (school, workplace, etc) you're met with bullies, that perhaps reflecting on the common denominator might be beneficial.
She just said she experienced bullying predom in nursing. I totally agree! You nurses who blame the victim are in the wrong. I know exactly what the OP is going thru. I had to make that decision too. We're not too sensitive. We're just not power starved a**holes who take out their nasty manipulative aggressions on others. If you like the aggression and call others snowflakes, that speaks more about you than anything. YOU'RE the one who shouldn't be in nursing. YOU'RE the one who needs counseling.
The two times in my life where I dealt with a bully were times of transition. One a new high school after going to a private school for eight years and next as an unsure, anxious new grad. I think bullies look for people they believe are vulnerable and target them. If you are able to fight back and stand up for yourself they will stop and probably move on to someone else.
In high school I was able to defend myself, also felt confident and starting over didn't bother me. As a new grad, I was vulnerable and anxious and was not able to fight back at work as I did in school.
My own thoughts are bullies are weak and looking for someone to take out their frustrations on. Also they are narcissists who see people in black and white and one may be on a pedestal and and another a scapegoat. If interested you can learn about narcissistic abuse and family dynamics on Youtube.
Emergent was not insulting you, but noting you need to be strong and assertive to survive and hopefully thrive in nursing. I sure learned to speak up and be assertive rather than be overworked or taken advantage of. You need this quality to be able to stand up for yourself with patients, coworkers and supervisors.
I've also witnessed family dynamics play out with coworkers such as if a bully reminds you of a family member who treated you like that, not saying that is your situation. A coworker dealt with a bully and she reminded her of her mother and that left her feeling powerless and speechless to fight back. However she finally reached her breaking point and sent a letter to her manager and CNO about the bullies behavior and management finally dealt with it
Yes, THIS! Acknowledging the bullying is present and wrong. Nurses need to know tactics that counter the bullying. Maybe an article on THAT. Also, again, students need to be told how much lateral aggression and lack of support there is in nursing before they sign admission paper work. Many nurses were given misleading info about nursing and went into debt pursing this "wonderful career" only to find it miserable and intolerable. Many nurses have mental health problems as a result of this work. And you want to defend bullies and how tough the environment is? We want our tuition and time back.
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daisychains11, RN
62 Posts
WOW! Is scrappy? Man, you're like classic example of exactly what I am talking about.
Prob a huge jerk in real life who picks on the new ones.
All of these responses are ***. I am talking about yelling and insulting. THIS ISN'T ABOUT MY WEAKNESSES. BULLYING IS BULLYING. WOW!.
Man I would not want to hang out with any of you in real life.