Have you had to do anything morally wrong?

november17, ASN, RN · Sep 24, 2008

I'd answer your question but you addressed it to the "ladies" sorry

PICNICRN, BSN, RN · Sep 24, 2008

Let me just say that I think you should do whatever you think is best for you and your family, however, I encourage you to REALLY look closely into vaccinations and your reasons vs risks for not having or delaying them- many diseases are on the rise over the past few years have increased such as pertussis and rubella- these are very serious illnesses that kill children. Just make sure you weigh your risk vs benefits.

As for home births- yes, pregnancy is not an illness, if you have a "healthy" pregnancy and are brave enough to give birth at home- more power to you. There are some great midwives out there- although I would encourage you to choose a nurse midwife and not a lay midwife- big difference.

As for co bedding......... and I cannot stress this enough.... DO NOT DO THIS!! I have seen too many babies end up in my ICU because of a co bedding accident. It is simply not worth it! You can bond just fine with your baby in their own bed! If it is convenience you are looking for, keep them in a bassinette next to your bed. This one I feel very strongly about--- JMO!! :twocents:

Good luck in nursing school!

blondy2061h, MSN, RN · Sep 24, 2008

I feel bad about giving chemo to an older person who just found out they have leukemia, who I know really doesn't want chemo, but the doctor talked them into it.

I also felt really bad when we recently had a case where a man with a GI bleed had a really low hemoglobin and desperately needed a blood transfusion, but his family was refusing it because he was a Jehovah's Witness. He ended up dying.

TopazLover, BSN, RN · Sep 24, 2008

I agree with PicnicRN about all issues.

In answer to your other quest. about moral, illegal actions: yes to illegal- nurses who want you to sign for drugs wasted if you did not see it.

yes to immoral, at least for me, but I refused and MD was OK with my feelings.

Nurses are human. We get asked to do things we are not comfortable with. How we handle those things are the real meat of the issue.

I could not sign for narcs I did not see wasted. I could not bend my values systems to accomodate the request of the MD. It is my responsibility to maintain these. There are gray areas that I have found I could not live with. I have moved on rather than stay where I was not comf.

Bottom line for me is having to sleep with myself each night rather than the people who want me to bend to their will.

BrnEyedGirl, BSN, MSN, RN, APRN · Sep 24, 2008

Just a few questions...I'm a pre-nursing school student and just curious...have any of you ladies ever had to do, in your job, something you felt morally wrong and unnacceptable? What about illegal?

I'm not sure where you're going with this question,.but if my job requires me to do something I feel is morally wrong I don't do it (I'm in ER). I can only think of one time over the last 10 or so years where this has been an issue. I have worked with JW nurses who won't hang blood. They are okay with caring for the pt who is receiving the blood, they just can't hang it. It really isn't a problem, another nurse hangs the blood for her and the night moves on, no big deal.

I can't imagine anything my job would require that is illegal. Obviously I'm not going to break the law for anyone.

I agree with you about having babies at home. My first OB told me up front that he is trained as a surgeon and unless something goes wrong I really didn't need him! I had both of my girls in a hospital as I wasn't prepared to live with the consequences of what would happen if something went wrong and I had chosen to be at home instead of in the hospital. I do however believe that if you are educated, are able to make an informed decision, and willing to live with that decision if something does go wrong, then a midwife, at home would be a wonderful way to have a baby.

I co slept with both of my girls, the first one in a water bed OMG! I never had problems, but I have seen some horrible things happen when parents share a bed with a newborn. Again you need to be informed, no drugs/ETOH on board etc. Now, mind you my oldest is 22 today, and we have learned a great deal since then,.not sure I would do it today.

Nursing is a career choice. It does encompass a great deal of your life but your career should never convince you to do something morally wrong or illegal. I wouldn't let my spouse, my friends or my family convince me to break the law, I won't allow my job to do it either.

**canoehead, BSN, RN** · Sep 24, 2008

Catering to VIP patients is annoying, and frequently goes toward the immoral side when others are sicker and waiting while the big mucky-mucks get all the resources.

I was all for cobedding, until I worked in the ER, and had my first DOA infant with some very caring loving parents in tears at the bedside. Put a bassinet right beside the bed, and your baby will be right there if he/she needs you.

I was all for immunizations, until I realized some of these infants were getting 4 shots in one day, and miserable with fever and pain for 2-3 days afterward. I think 4 shots is way too much of a challenge on a developing immune system, and personally would space them out, and decline Hep B until later in life.

I think a healthy pregnancy does not belong in hospital. Sure, hospitals have all the gear if something goes wrong, but if you have all the gear you're also motivated to USE it all. Interventions lead to complications, which lead to stress and illness in mom and baby. I think there are risks/benefits to either choice, and the healthier your pregnancy the worse a hospital choice becomes. Go for a home birth, or a birthing center, and if you need a hospital, they will get you there.

All JMHO.

SICU Queen · Sep 24, 2008

I've never done anything illegal, but I've "tortured" patients in the name of medicine, which I have a serious moral and ethical dilemma with to this day. It's challenging, especially in the situation where the patient may or may not have agreed with the treatment, and they're currently NOT in a position to decline.

As to vaccines, you need to read "The Vaccine Book" by Dr. Sears. It's an inexpensive and invaluable tool in making conscious decisions about when and how to vaccinate. He offers alternate vaccinations schedules and talks about why he feels some vaccines are imperative for infants. He also goes into ingredients, side effects, etc. I think it's a must-read for any parent who's considering an alternative to the regular vaccination schedule.

Trauma Columnist · Sep 24, 2008

SICU Queen - I so know what you mean: I too share the guilt of torturing patients because "we want everything done!"

As to the OP: yes, I have done some things which wouldn't have been my choice. However, that said, I haven't done anything illegal that I know of - and I am not the moral compass of the world.

HappyPediRN · Sep 24, 2008

Truthfully it sounds like you should post these questions on a parenting forum, not a nursing one.

NursingAgainstdaOdds · Sep 24, 2008

I had a completely natural childbirth in a hospital ... no drugs at all, midwife, jacuzzi tub (where my boy was actually born). :) I think it is highly beneficial, but childbirth and parenting are such individual processes we can really only make those choices for ourselves.

My son has also been on a delayed vaccination schedule. This is a hugely hot-button topic on these boards ... our decision to do so was based on a risks/benefits evaluation. Now he will be 4 in January and my husband now won't agree to getting him caught-up for the sake of him attending Pre-K. :rolleyes: That one bit me in the behind, but I would do it again.

We also co-sleep. I've done so since my son was a newborn. We took specific precautions related to this - such as not using a lot of heavy blankets, having a firm mattress, etc. Nothing is absolute, but neither is crib sleeping.

We breastfed until he was more than 3 years old. Eventually, I was just ready to be done, and he didn't put-up much of a fight about it.

I think I made many of these choices because I am a nurse, not in spite of it.

:nurse:

RN1982 · Sep 24, 2008

I had a completely natural childbirth in a hospital ... no drugs at all, midwife, jacuzzi tub (where my boy was actually born). :) I think it is highly beneficial, but childbirth and parenting are such individual processes we can really only make those choices for ourselves.
My son has also been on a delayed vaccination schedule. This is a hugely hot-button topic on these boards ... our decision to do so was based on a risks/benefits evaluation. Now he will be 4 in January and my husband now won't agree to getting him caught-up for the sake of him attending Pre-K. That one bit me in the behind, but I would do it again.
We also co-sleep. I've done so since my son was a newborn. We took specific precautions related to this - such as not using a lot of heavy blankets, having a firm mattress, etc. Nothing is absolute, but neither is crib sleeping.
We breastfed until he was more than 3 years old. Eventually, I was just ready to be done, and he didn't put-up much of a fight about it.
I think I made many of these choices because I am a nurse, not in spite of it.

Has anyone ever seen the movie "the business of being born". It's very eye opening. They showed nurses on a L/D discussing the patients and asking whether or not the patients were on Pitocin and to start increasing it. I'd much rather have my baby naturally in a birthing center with a midwive than have to constantly be monitored. I'm very interested in water-birthing and would consider it if I ever became pregnant and had a low-risk pregnancy. I'm not entirely a fan of co-sleeping. I'm not against those who do it. I would rather put the baby in a bassinet next to my bed.