Just a few questions...I'm a pre-nursing school student and just curious...have any of you ladies ever had to do, in your job, something you felt morally wrong and unnacceptable? What about illegal?
More and more I am leaning toward becoming more natural. Like if you are having a normal pregnancy, there is no need to give birth in a hospital. I believe it's in the best interest to have assistance and ideal to me is a midwife, with no drugs. Hospital's, for the most part, are for sick people IMO. Just curious for some nurses opinions on this..
My son has been vaccinated on time til 12 months, I don't think I want him recieving anymore for a few years and he is now 18 months. With my next child, they definitely won't be receiving any until around 3 or 4, then they will be spaced out. Do alot of other nurses feel this way?
What are your thoughts on co-sleeping?
Sorry for all the random questions, thanks for reading!
There can be a difference between morally right, legally right and ethically right. There are times when your job will ask you to do things that are legally right in opposition to your morals, which may not agree with the next nurses morals, which may not agree with the family's morals, or the doctors morals, or the doctor's and hospital's (or others) understanding of the ethics.
There are times when one can opt out of caring for a particular patient if providing that care would contradict one's personal morals. There are times when these principles rear their heads unexpectedly. Is it your legal obligation to give narcotics to a patient you suspect is a drug seeker? yes. Is it moral? probably not. Is it ethical? don't know . . .
See? And that's not really a life or death situation.
Everywhere I've worked has an option to allow the nurse to not participate in care that contradicts his/her personal morals. Of course one needs to evaluate one's personal morals before taking certain positions. If you take a nursing in the immunization clinic of a health dept, you will likely need to find new work quickly, that's not going to go well for you either professionally or with your personal beliefs.
I have seen different nurses with different beliefs handle things in variety of ways. I have known a Jehovah's Witness nurse who will administer blood products, but will not personally do it if this nurse knows the patient is Jehovah's Witness. But this nurse does not stop the process, just seeks out another caregiver to do the procedure and then chooses not to care for the patient again. But this nurse never lectures the patients/family's about their "sin", it's just this nurse's personal belief (morals).
The OP has stated that her inquiry about moral issues was separate from her questions about childbirth, vaccinations and co-sleeping.
This is a moderator request that we not divert this thread into a discussion about the pros and cons or the morality/immorality of circumcision. This topic is a volatile one and tends to hijack threads where it is mentioned.
Here is a link to a thread that covers just about any aspect you can think of regarding circumcision:
Oh, and one more thing. . . Please don't think for a moment that nurses "follow the rules" all the time. I know plenty of nurses who co-sleep, home birth (only one of those actually), vaccinate off schedule or not at all, and so on.
I also know nurses that participate in behaviors that I wouldn't group together in the previous paragraph because they are more accepted as risky, like smoking, drinking, riding motorcycles without helmets, driving without seat belts. . .
But that's really not so much on the original topic. . .
The ethical stuff I see at work is a lot like this: A person may be trying to do what they think is right -- like a daughter with POA/healthcare telling us to give their mom her lovenox injections against her will, the person needs them d/t immobility to prevent DVT, but pt is A/O and refusing. Do you potentially allow a person to come to harm to preserve their autonomy? Do you give the injection and commit battery? I mean, it doesn't matter which way you jump, somebody's going to be mad and threatening to sue.
I agree that the examples given do not seem to be, IMO questions of morality. If I had a pt. who asked me about homebirth, vaccination delays, or co-sleeping, I would present them with the facts, risk/benefit to each and let the parent make the decision about their health care and their child's health care. I may not agree with what they decide, but I don't see it as an issue of morality.
In my short career, I have not done anything illegal, nor would I. I have seen things that I disagree with, but have not been put in a position to provide care that I disagree with, ie, IV on someone who is dying, etc.
I don't quite get the connection between the original post and morality. If you want to have a home birth or not vaccinate your children, that seems more in the realm of preferences.
I agree with SICU, I have done things to extend the life in a hopeless situation that I disagreed with and thought of more as 'end of life crucifixion' than compassionate care. But, since we are all individually responsible to make our wishes for these situations known in advance, then I don't feel individually morally responsible. I do think that our society as a whole hasn't properly addressed many aspects of medical ethics however.
As a nurse I don't see why anyone should have to do anything illegal in their profession.
As for morally wrong I don't believe I've ever done this either. Some people may disagree because I have assisted with pregnancy terminations but as I'm pro choice I have no qualms about it.
I don't believe anyone should be coerced into birthing at home if they don't want to. I haven't had children yet but I'm definitely having maximum pain medication and I would be planning to have a c-section right from the start.
As a nurse I don't see why anyone should have to do anything illegal in their profession.
Here in the US, insurance fraud is a big problem for many nurses. I have been asked to give treatments to pts that did not need them, simply because they were more expensive. I have friends who were told to lie about the care the patients needed in order to get insurance money.
I have been instructed to not report abuse and neglect - partly because it would have made the facility look bad that it wasn't reported sooner, and also because the pt would no longer receive treatment at that facility if the person was removed from their home and placed into state custody - which would decrease the amount of money coming in to the facility.
I have been instructed to disregard the nurse practice act in various ways to save money and/or keep a pt alive because someone without proper education was given care of a pt.
You'd be surprised at all the sneaky things that employers due to try to involve US nurses in schemes that are not on the up and up. There are times that the nurses don't even realize what is happening because it is is so sneaky and seemingly normal.
I personally know two people who say their children's autism began after a vaccination, within 24 hours.
I also have a niece whose oldest son went into seizures the evening after he recieved three or four vaccines that day.
Due to these situations, especially the one with a blood relative, my grandchildren are getting their shots, BUT they get one a month. Yes its a pain in the butt. Yes it IS irregular. But by the time its all done they will have received all their shots by age 3, just like everyone else, and that's all the dr specified regarding their modified schedule.
And it relieves our minds and gives us one less thing to worry about.
Specializes in oncology,psych,homehealth, med/surg,ED.
On the subject of administering vaccinations to pts, I will not do so, I know too much about what is in the vaccinations and what they do--especially to the very young and old. I will not discuss this with any pt and if another nurse administers the injection that is their choice. and yes, my boss knows my views and as long as I do not discuss them with my pts has no problem with it.
TiffyRN, BSN, PhD
2,316 Posts
There can be a difference between morally right, legally right and ethically right. There are times when your job will ask you to do things that are legally right in opposition to your morals, which may not agree with the next nurses morals, which may not agree with the family's morals, or the doctors morals, or the doctor's and hospital's (or others) understanding of the ethics.
There are times when one can opt out of caring for a particular patient if providing that care would contradict one's personal morals. There are times when these principles rear their heads unexpectedly. Is it your legal obligation to give narcotics to a patient you suspect is a drug seeker? yes. Is it moral? probably not. Is it ethical? don't know . . .
See? And that's not really a life or death situation.
Everywhere I've worked has an option to allow the nurse to not participate in care that contradicts his/her personal morals. Of course one needs to evaluate one's personal morals before taking certain positions. If you take a nursing in the immunization clinic of a health dept, you will likely need to find new work quickly, that's not going to go well for you either professionally or with your personal beliefs.
I have seen different nurses with different beliefs handle things in variety of ways. I have known a Jehovah's Witness nurse who will administer blood products, but will not personally do it if this nurse knows the patient is Jehovah's Witness. But this nurse does not stop the process, just seeks out another caregiver to do the procedure and then chooses not to care for the patient again. But this nurse never lectures the patients/family's about their "sin", it's just this nurse's personal belief (morals).