Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp signed a bill into law May 2 preventing nonphysicians from using specialty titles such as "doctor," in an effort to promote transparency for patients.
Senate Bill 197 was written by state Sen. Chuck Hufstetler, a certified anesthesiologist assistant. It's summary outlines an aim "to prohibit deceptive or misleading terms or false representations by healthcare practitioners in advertisements and representations" and to do the same regarding the "misappropriation of medical or medical specialty titles."
Not all members of the public are able to easily and quickly differentiate between various doctoral degrees held by the person treating them or by the person from whom may receive care.
Leaving aside the debate about which doctoral degrees merit informing the public that the health care provider holds the degree, and leaving aside the debate as to whether an online doctorate should be considered equivalent of a bricks and mortar doctorate, and the debate as to whether some doctoral degrees are really significant enough to merit informing the public that the provider holds them, is the question of why exactly the public needs to be informed that their health care provider holds an doctoral degree (apart from the need to inform patients who are seeking care from a provider who holds a certain license eg. M.D., D.O. O.D., etc. that the provider does indeed hold the license that permits them to provide the specific professional health care that the patient is seeking).
I think it's fine and good that people further their education and obtain doctorates in whatever they find useful and satisfying to them, and I think people who have obtained a doctorate that is not a specific requirement of their professional licensure, should be able, if they choose, to display their credentials in settings where they don't have direct patient contact (I have modified my position from my earlier post), but I think it adds more confusion for patients at the point of care when they are faced with determining what provider X's letters after his/her name means as patients are then in the position of wondering why provider X who is not an M.D., D.O., O.D., D.P.T. or another doctoral holder whose degree is a specific requirement of their license but whose doctoral degree primarily represents further education that may be very worthy in it's own right but is not a requirement of their professional licensure, felt the need to communicate to their patients that they hold a doctorate. I think this can add anxiety to a patient's visit to a provider as patients can find themself pondering what professional deference the provider may expect or wish the patient to show them, or pondering how to behave with said provider.
I think we need to make things as easy for patients as possible. A visit to a provider shouldn't be an ego parade for the provider.
What is the entry level qualification for an anesthesiology assistant?
A bachelor's degree with a pre-med focus. IMO, the prerequisites for CRNA school in the sciences have decreased since I went to school where we had to have courses in organic chemistry and physics. The only school I have come across that only "strongly recommends" these classes are the U of Iowa nurse anesthesia program. Most students who are accepted into programs have 5 to 7 years of an ICU experience. The difference is that the AA can't practice independently of an anesthesiologist.
I have a Doctorate. It's not in Nursing. It wasn't from an online school. For me, the DNP or PhD in Nursing didn't fit what I was looking for in a terminal degree to achieve my career goals. However, I do not disparage my fellow Nurses who chose the DNP or PhD in Nursing route. If they completed their respective programs and earned their degrees, then they should be able to use the "Dr" credential just like everyone else who does the same thing.
The whole issue of online schools with 100% admissions is not a Nursing problem that you speak of, that's an education quality problem in general. The term "Dr" is not unique to physicians. If people can understand the difference between a pharmacist, psychologist, dentist, and other health professionals that refer to themselves as "Dr" that also hold a doctoral degree (and are not physicians), then they can also understand the difference with nurses.
It is too darn hard work, time and monetary input to earn a doctoral degree. You have 'earned' your credentials, so use them.
I made a conscious decision to drop out of a doctoral program as I was not willing to make the sacrifice and effort or take the pay cut of becoming a teaching assistant again, or conversely, spend all my savings/go into debt to get another degree.
That's what we get, I've met a few NPs that mislead people to believe they are medical doctors. I witnessed a psych NP telling the Pt that she was the doctor more than once, she even said it in front of a psychiatrist once. I was being treated by an NP once and she attempted to represent herself as a doctor. Also, everyone wants to wear a white coat now — dieticians, RTs, etc. The hospital is still an elitist field.
That's what we get, I've met a few NPs that mislead people to believe they are medical doctors. I witnessed a psych NP telling the Pt that she was the doctor more than once, she even said it in front of a psychiatrist once. I was being treated by an NP once and she attempted to represent herself as a doctor.
Yep. As long as we have people like this that want to play physician we're going to have these issues.
Now that I think about it, I don't know that I've ever seen a pharmacist refer to themselves as a doctor. Same for any ancillary service. As much as I want to say this is an issue aimed at nursing because of xyz, there are those in our field that brought this upon us.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
MaxAttack said:
Yep. As long as we have people like this that want to play physician we're going to have these issues.
Now that I think about it, I don't know that I've ever seen a pharmacist refer to themselves as a doctor. Same for any ancillary service. As much as I want to say this is an issue aimed at nursing because of xyz, there are those in our field that brought this upon us.
There are people who will misrepresent themselves in every walk of life. They are likely not the root cause of this discussion.
This "doctor" discussion is very old and it didn't start with nurses but the whole tone changed when the DNP was just becoming a thing. In my old timer's opinion.
There are people who will misrepresent themselves in every walk of life. They are likely not the root cause of this discussion.
This "doctor" discussion is very old and it didn't start with nurses but the whole tone changed when the DNP was just becoming a thing. In my old timer's opinion.
There is opportunity to misrepresent as a nurse too. Patients call every female in scrubs 'nurse', even utility workers and dietary staff.
We cannot make people hide their earned credentials because some people are unethical or some schools are cutting corners.
There is opportunity to misrepresent as a nurse too. Patients call every female in scrubs 'nurse', even utility workers and dietary staff.
We cannot make people hide their earned credentials because some people are unethical or some schools are cutting corners.
But we could make it clear by giving them a title that could include nurse and doctorate. Why even have the debate? Just change the title to make it clear and honest to all. I have seen the sneers from doctors on Medpage about NP's from online programs presenting themselves as doctors. It doesn't make us look any better educated to usurp someone else' title in a hospital filled with multiple kinds of medical professionals.
1. It is not you but accreditation organizations that determine whether a school is fake or not.
2. All the schools you have named also have labs and supervised clinicals, or state boards would not allow them to operate.
3. Brick and mortar schools also have DNP programs.
4. It is PhD programs that don't have a clinical component. A lot of brick and mortar universities give PhDs totally online for that reason. DNP programs actually have requirements of over 500 clinical hours for entry. Since it is a practice doctorate, they do more clinicals and a clinical project.
5. You obviously have been in neither, but it is never too late to learn.
Our accreditation agencies have let us down. They are not aggressive enough. Look at Florida and the fake diplomas.
There are people who will misrepresent themselves in every walk of life. They are likely not the root cause of this discussion.
This "doctor" discussion is very old and it didn't start with nurses but the whole tone changed when the DNP was just becoming a thing. In my old timer's opinion.
True. You have much more time on me so I can't speak to trends; just my observations. Were there other groups referring to themselves as doctors in hospitals before dnp programs? I'm wondering if the rise of these programs might be contributing to the issues we're seeing now.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
MaxAttack said:
True. You have much more time on me so I can't speak to trends; just my observations. Were there other groups referring to themselves as doctors in hospitals before DNP programs? I'm wondering if the rise of these programs might be contributing to the issues we're seeing now.
Think in terms of optometry, podiatry, dentistry, osteopathy, psychology. I believe that all of those specialties struggled with the AMA at some time over the "doctor" designation.
Think in terms of optometry, podiatry, dentistry, osteopathy, psychology. I believe that all of those specialties struggled with the AMA at some time over the "doctor" designation.
To be honest I thought a podiatrist was a medical doctor. Learning every day.
Susie2310
2,121 Posts
Not all members of the public are able to easily and quickly differentiate between various doctoral degrees held by the person treating them or by the person from whom may receive care.
Leaving aside the debate about which doctoral degrees merit informing the public that the health care provider holds the degree, and leaving aside the debate as to whether an online doctorate should be considered equivalent of a bricks and mortar doctorate, and the debate as to whether some doctoral degrees are really significant enough to merit informing the public that the provider holds them, is the question of why exactly the public needs to be informed that their health care provider holds an doctoral degree (apart from the need to inform patients who are seeking care from a provider who holds a certain license eg. M.D., D.O. O.D., etc. that the provider does indeed hold the license that permits them to provide the specific professional health care that the patient is seeking).
I think it's fine and good that people further their education and obtain doctorates in whatever they find useful and satisfying to them, and I think people who have obtained a doctorate that is not a specific requirement of their professional licensure, should be able, if they choose, to display their credentials in settings where they don't have direct patient contact (I have modified my position from my earlier post), but I think it adds more confusion for patients at the point of care when they are faced with determining what provider X's letters after his/her name means as patients are then in the position of wondering why provider X who is not an M.D., D.O., O.D., D.P.T. or another doctoral holder whose degree is a specific requirement of their license but whose doctoral degree primarily represents further education that may be very worthy in it's own right but is not a requirement of their professional licensure, felt the need to communicate to their patients that they hold a doctorate. I think this can add anxiety to a patient's visit to a provider as patients can find themself pondering what professional deference the provider may expect or wish the patient to show them, or pondering how to behave with said provider.
I think we need to make things as easy for patients as possible. A visit to a provider shouldn't be an ego parade for the provider.