Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp signed a bill into law May 2 preventing nonphysicians from using specialty titles such as "doctor," in an effort to promote transparency for patients.
Senate Bill 197 was written by state Sen. Chuck Hufstetler, a certified anesthesiologist assistant. It's summary outlines an aim "to prohibit deceptive or misleading terms or false representations by healthcare practitioners in advertisements and representations" and to do the same regarding the "misappropriation of medical or medical specialty titles."
Certified anesthesiologist assistants (CAAs) are highly trained master's degree level non-physician anesthesia care providers. The CAA profession was established in the late 1960s by physician anesthesiologists. After studying the educational pathway for physician anesthesiologists and nurse anesthetists, physician anesthesiologists created a new educational paradigm for a mid-level anesthesia practitioner emphasizing a science/pre-medical – rather than nursing – background in college. This person would perform the same job as nurse anesthetists but could seek admittance to medical school if appropriate. The founders recognized early the advantage of a strong pre-medical background in comparison to the nursing education background of the nurse anesthetist profession.
There is an NP in CA challenging this same law by suing her state medical board and a bunch of others. The law is super stupid and ridiculous! An NP in CA was actually fined for having a DNP and referring to herself as "Doctor" even while making it clear to everyone she is a "Nurse". This type of BS only happens because Nursing is a female-dominated profession. These so-called "laws" are gender-biased and discriminatory!! Physicians don't own the term "Doctor"! If I went to college and spent my time, money, and energy to obtain a Doctoral-level degree, then I should be able to call myself "Doctor" the same as anyone else who does the same. Physicians need to stop whining about who is being called "Doctor" and focus on caring for their patients.
Physicians have no problem delegating care to DNPs, even NPs and make more money. It has been 3 years I have seen the face of a doctor on an office visit. It is all NPs. They won't let you know how essential you are to their practice. They outorganise you by withholding information.
1. It is not you but accreditation organizations that determine whether a school is fake or not.
2. All the schools you have named also have labs and supervised clinicals, or state boards would not allow them to operate.
3. Brick and mortar schools also have DNP programs.
4. It is PhD programs that don't have a clinical component. A lot of brick and mortar universities give PhDs totally online for that reason. DNP programs actually have requirements of over 500 clinical hours for entry. Since it is a practice doctorate, they do more clinicals and a clinical project.
5. You obviously have been in neither, but it is never too late to learn.
What? I just Googled the shortest dnp programs and came up with places that got your hustled through in 12 months. Walden appears to be putting up a better explanation for themselves online but warn that they can't guarantee a preceptor. I do understand that a PhD can be non-clinical but clinical psychologists still have to go through an extensive residency. I am well aware of what the DNP in nurse anesthesiology requires and I can see for myself that there are non-clinical components of the programs that I question belong in academia..such as the business of anesthesia. How about having a 24 month NP Program that just concentrates on sciences and tons of clinicals that only accept people with a 3.0 undergrad average? We can get those people out in 24 months of full-time study. Why do you even need a doctorate if you don't want to work in academia. It's all status manipulation. I don't care about the people getting doctorates in non-clinical areas not involved with patients.
What? I just Googled the shortest DNP programs and came up with places that got your hustled through in 12 months. Walden appears to be putting up a better explanation for themselves online but warn that they can't guarantee a preceptor. I do understand that a PhD can be non-clinical but clinical psychologists still have to go through an extensive residency. I am well aware of what the DNP in nurse anesthesiology requires and I can see for myself that there are non-clinical components of the programs that I question belong in academia..such as the business of anesthesia. How about having a 24 month NP Program that just concentrates on sciences and tons of clinicals that only accept people with a 3.0 undergrad average? We can get those people out in 24 months of full-time study. Why do you even need a doctorate if you don't want to work in academia. It's all status manipulation. I don't care about the people getting doctorates in non-clinical areas not involved with patients.
DNPs teach DNP students' clinical component. Not guaranteeing a preceptor dies not remove requirement for precepted cli ical experience. It means the student is responsible for procuring a preceptor. The major brick and mortar I went to never provided us with preceptors. We were on iur own. Which did not mean the preceptors were not vetted.
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
subee said:
Bingo. All of the other doctorate professions actually had to go go a real college, show up in person for classes, attend clinicals supervised by their university. We, on the other hand, can go to Walden, Chamberlain, etc, schools that admit 100% of applications and think this is comprable in quality to a doctorate in psychology or physical therapy? The nurses who really "earned" a doctorate when to a real university where other doctorate professions are educated. Their ego's are abused when they can't be called Doctor. Aren't the patients confused enough by who's seeing them? Can we come up with a new title like Nurse-Doctor? We need to place the first emphasis on nursing and secondly on the doctorate earned (while never showing up on a campus).
Wow, I'm really surprised by your take on this. Generally I agree with the stuff you post, but I gotta say, I think you're overly harsh. FTR, this legislation applies to even nurses who "earned" their doctorates at a "real" university. ?
DNPs teach DNP students' clinical component. Not guaranteeing a preceptor dies not remove requirement for precepted cli ical experience. It means the student is responsible for procuring a preceptor. The major brick and mortar I went to never provided us with preceptors. We were on iur own. Which did not mean the preceptors were not vetted.
It's a very big deal when preceptors are not employees of the student's university. If you can't understand that, I can't explain it to you. NO SCHOOL schould be charging students for a service they are not providing.
There are plenty of awful brick and mortar schools around. It seems that you chose one.
Wow, I'm really surprised by your take on this. Generally I agree with the stuff you post, but I gotta say, I think you're overly harsh. FTR, this legislation applies to even nurses who "earned" their doctorates at a "real" university. ?
I believe that a clinical DNP earned online deprives students of the learning that collegiality provides in a classroom setting. I also believe that clinical preceptors who are not employees of the college giving the degree is a financial and intellectual disservice to the students. Coming up with another title that indicates both a doctorate and a nurse in the legal title should't be so difficult. And then there's those 12 month DNP's advertised online........I know there's great programs out there that give students their all, but I also know that there are too many inadequate programs. Yeah, getting cranky.
I think this all boils down to the fact that many Nurse Practitioner programs are weak, with poor oversight, and filled with a lot of fluff. I am hesitant to seek out a Nurse Practitioner that I don't know the history and clinical background of.
I have one now, but she doesn't take insurance anymore. She's got other irons in the fire, and I plan on looking for a PCP that I trust. I definitely have no faith in a Nurse Practitioner fresh out of school. There are too many programs popping up that are pretty Mickey Mouse, as pointed out in this thread. The whole discipline needs total revamping, in my opinion.
It's a very big deal when preceptors are not employees of the student's university. If you can't understand that, I can't explain it to you. NO SCHOOL schould be charging students for a service they are not providing.
There are plenty of awful brick and mortar schools around. It seems that you chose one.
I see a lot of assumption and opinions not backed by facts. You assume my school was awful and I will allow you to wallow in your warm opinions. I suspect the initials you wrote after your name are not backed by facts either.
I see a lot of assumption and opinions not backed by facts. You assume my school was awful and I will allow you to wallow in your warm opinions. I suspect the initials you wrote after your name are not backed by facts either.
Subee is a long time poster here. I know things can get heated here, but that is an intemperate accusation.
I have a heck of a lot of respect for it the CRNA title. It is a difficult road. I have known some very capable people who could not get into a program. It is extremely rigorous, and a clinical background in ICU is a requirement, as far as I have heard.
That's a lot different than what is going on with the nurse practitioner mills. Yes there are excellent nurse practitioners, I know a few. But with every nursing student being told that they need to go on to be a nurse practitioner, some of them are totally unprepared and wet behind the ears. They enter programs that are not as rigorous as they should be. When they get jobs, they are not overseen by MDs or DOs like they should be.
No one is "going" after nurses with this bill; rather, it reads that if you identify yourself using the as Dr. X, you have to clarify that you are an advance practice nurse and not a physician.
I am aware of what this so-called bill is about. It's utterly ridiculous!! Is any other profession being harassed over identifying themselves? Nope, just Nurses! Nurses are not claiming to be physicians by calling themselves "Dr". Anyone who has worked hard to earn those credentials has the right to that title.
Bingo. All of the other doctorate professions actually had to go go a real college, show up in person for classes, attend clinicals supervised by their university. We, on the other hand, can go to Walden, Chamberlain, etc, schools that admit 100% of applications and think this is comprable in quality to a doctorate in psychology or physical therapy? The nurses who really "earned" a doctorate when to a real university where other doctorate professions are educated. Their ego's are abused when they can't be called Doctor. Aren't the patients confused enough by who's seeing them? Can we come up with a new title like Nurse-Doctor? We need to place the first emphasis on nursing and secondly on the doctorate earned (while never showing up on a campus).
I have a Doctorate. It's not in Nursing. It wasn't from an online school. For me, the DNP or PhD in Nursing didn't fit what I was looking for in a terminal degree to achieve my career goals. However, I do not disparage my fellow Nurses who chose the DNP or PhD in Nursing route. If they completed their respective programs and earned their degrees, then they should be able to use the "Dr" credential just like everyone else who does the same thing.
The whole issue of online schools with 100% admissions is not a Nursing problem that you speak of, that's an education quality problem in general. The term "Dr" is not unique to physicians. If people can understand the difference between a pharmacist, psychologist, dentist, and other health professionals that refer to themselves as "Dr" that also hold a doctoral degree (and are not physicians), then they can also understand the difference with nurses.
NRSKarenRN, BSN, RN
10 Articles; 19,193 Posts
Masters degree: anesthesiology assistant. They practice in just 21 states to date.