Would you do anything about this situation with an employer?

Hodge · Oct 2, 2005

I have to say that is really a poor way to treat someone. Welcome to the "right to work" system..........

nursing 101 · Oct 2, 2005

It doesnt matter what's wrong...any absence is unexcused. Whatever, I am over it! I mean life does happen. I had an interview today and was completely honest...they hired me! This place is a little more flexible (as it can be). I totally understand the reason...nursing is 24-7 I know but when things happen that cannot be controlled...what do you do?? I certainly was not going to go to work and leave my baby in the hospital with someone else. No way.
Oh well. Everything happens for a reason. This job is acute rehab and it pays more!

I totally agree with you. Your daughter comes first. At the end of the day I would rather feel bad and lose a job than have my child tell me for the rest of our lives together that I didn't even come to the ER with her while she was sick and mommy is a nurse on top of everything else. These kids remember stuff for a very long time :rotfl:

I'm sorry but my kids come first!

joyflnoyz, LPN · Oct 2, 2005

I have to say that is really a poor way to treat someone. Welcome to the "right to work" system..........

Wouldn't that be "At Will"? Texas is an At Will" state, meaning yuo can quit without notice for any reason, or they can fire you without notice for any reason...

Guess we need somelegal definitions...

KristinWW · Oct 2, 2005

This is really making a LONG story short.
I was working as a staff rn for a state hospital. I started 3/30/05. 2 weeks later my son had seizure (he is 7)...his first one so I took him to the ER as per the pediatrician. Could not find anything. Of course I called out of work to do this. A week later he had another one...had to call out. I provided documentation to support my absence. THEN about 4 weeks ago my 18 month old daughter was hospitalized with campylobacter jejuni (have no idea HOW she came in contact with that). Anyway I spent another night in the ER and she was admitted for 2 days for hydration and IV antibiotics (thought she had a bladder infection but did not). So I could not go to work the night we were in the ER and THEN our whole family got sick with it...so I was out another day. **4 occurances total**. Camplyobactor is a foodborne illness so the health dept was notified. THEY faxed a letter to my employer stating I could not work until 48 hrs after diarrhea had stopped.
WELL...the probationary period at this facility is 6 months. At my 6 month review they called me in at 3:30pm (I worked 3-11) and said that the would be terminating my employment on 9/30/05 at the end of my probationary period due to my occurances. Talk about shocked. I had legitimate documentation...why did they asked for it? UGH!! :angryfire My review was great with the exception of this. I know there is probably nothing I can do since it is a probationary period.
What do you think??

Wait, this doesn't make sense. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they absences occur at the beginning of your employment? They would have occurred in April, and they must have made the decision in September. It sounds to me as if they want you out, and the absences were a convenient reason. They don't want an HR battle, so they used the probationary period/absences route.

I agree with the other posters here - keep seeking other employment. For whatever reasons, they don't want you around, and it's not worth a battle. You can always re-apply with the state down the road. Good luck!

Daytonite, BSN, RN · Oct 4, 2005

This, unfortunately, is a problem everywhere. There was a thread recently about calling off ill and this was discussed. Because I was a nurse manager and had to address attendance (our DON insisted on it), I felt bad when those who had legitimate reasons for calling off still had to be charged with a "call-off". It has something to do with the money paid out for replacement nurses and sick time. It is very sad this happens. For a mother, like you, it's a very inconvenient thing to have to work around. It really bothers me that in orientations new employees are always told that if they are sick they shouldn't come in to work. On the other hand, they don't really explain well that you are going to get charged with sick days and it is going on an attendance record. So, I guess you now know from having your feet to the fire what calling off involves. The only advice I could give you is to become friendly with other nurses, especially the prn nurses, and see if you can't work out some kind of support system where you would be able to get one of them to work in your place in a pinch if needed. When I was a supervisor we were able to avoid getting someone charged with a sick day by putting in a prn nurse who wasn't already scheduled in the place of the person who desparately needed the day off for some emergency.

Antikigirl, ASN, RN · Oct 4, 2005

Okay what about family leave??? UHGGGGGG!

Leave them behind and find a employer that understands that life happens outside of work and you hit a bout of bad luck! (bless your kids...poor kiddos!).

I was not terminated after being on a new job as the only RN for a 6 high medical need home for mentally disabled elderly folks for 2 months! My husband had a heart attack, but they understood and I brought some of my work with me (like care plans to update, lessons for CNA's and such) while I was tending him in hospital. (he is fine by the way :) ). They understood that even though they needed me very VERY badly (they were about to be audited by the state)...that I was in a situation I could not ignore and I was luckily able to do SOME work on that time. They gave, I gave...just good professionalism.

But again I was fortunate...the home was 4 blocks away from the hospital, the offices 2 blocks! They worked with me very well, didn't ask for me to do work (which I did for the sake of making my job easier really...why come back to a pile of work AND STATE AUDIT instead of doing a little bit while I was sitting around waiting for doctors..LOL!).

That position does not have you in mind at all...our children are everything...there must be a allowance for emergencies! Glad you have another job to try for...getting out of that other one would be best! I mean...would they fire you if your hubby had a heart attack and you wanted to be there? If your child was injured at school? If your mother or father was ill and needed you???? Doesn't sound like it...and as I always say...

"I am a nurse as a job, but when it comes to my family I have my mommy cap and wife apron on tight under my scrubs! They come first and foremost always!"

MadisonsMomRN, BSN, RN · Oct 4, 2005

You know...my daughter was in the hospital...she is only 18 months old. Of course I am staying with her. She had campylobacter for goodness sake. I dont know where she got it and thats really not the point. I ended up getting it and COULD NOT go to work...according to the health dept.

Some things simply cannot be helped. In the beginning when I first started my son started having generalized seizures (formerly known as grand mal). I was traveling back and forth to a pediatric neurologist about 2 hours away from me. UGH.

I didnt even think of FMLA.

Anyway its over now. I started at HealthSouth on 10/10. They know all about my past job and DO take into account the situation. :)

Aquamarine · Oct 5, 2005

I am proud of you for handling your family and bing there for them. I always say "what will matter the most to me on my death bed"....? Not that job and it's unrelenting abscence policy. They would not be anyone I would work for and I never call in sick. I would go in even if I was sick and then get sent home. But my children...one grown, two passed away. One from a drowning, one from an illness. If I could go back in time...I would have stayed home more when my daughter had surgeries because now I don't have her. Did I get anything memorable from a job I worked at for 15 yrs. with a good attendance record? No. Did I get anything worth remembering from my daughter who died at 18 from Marfans? you bet. What really matters? I don't think I have to say one more thing. You are good at what you do. Don't worry about the knuckleheads that could not understand. You don't give up being a mom, or a person to be a nurse and no one should expect you to do the impossible. That would be inhumane and I would not want an imhumane nurse taking care of me. What did they ask you for the letters for? You could have a law suit but why bother. Go work somewhere else and don't ever go back to a place with that attitude. Your kids may get sick again, you might. You need to have a human attitude towards your employees or you will lose in the long run. Don't be a part of that place. Everything happens for a reason, you will see that when you get older. You did the right thing, the best you could do in you circumstance...no one can ask for more. Nor should anyone even attempt to make you feel guilty about it. Don't look back....don't let the grass grow under your feet...be positive somewhere else. I hope I have given yo a different perspective on this situation....

Nancy K

This is really making a LONG story short.
I was working as a staff rn for a state hospital. I started 3/30/05. 2 weeks later my son had seizure (he is 7)...his first one so I took him to the ER as per the pediatrician. Could not find anything. Of course I called out of work to do this. A week later he had another one...had to call out. I provided documentation to support my absence. THEN about 4 weeks ago my 18 month old daughter was hospitalized with campylobacter jejuni (have no idea HOW she came in contact with that). Anyway I spent another night in the ER and she was admitted for 2 days for hydration and IV antibiotics (thought she had a bladder infection but did not). So I could not go to work the night we were in the ER and THEN our whole family got sick with it...so I was out another day. **4 occurances total**. Camplyobactor is a foodborne illness so the health dept was notified. THEY faxed a letter to my employer stating I could not work until 48 hrs after diarrhea had stopped.
WELL...the probationary period at this facility is 6 months. At my 6 month review they called me in at 3:30pm (I worked 3-11) and said that the would be terminating my employment on 9/30/05 at the end of my probationary period due to my occurances. Talk about shocked. I had legitimate documentation...why did they asked for it? UGH!! :angryfire My review was great with the exception of this. I know there is probably nothing I can do since it is a probationary period.
What do you think??

BillEDRN · Oct 5, 2005

Wouldn't that be "At Will"? Texas is an At Will" state, meaning yuo can quit without notice for any reason, or they can fire you without notice for any reason...
Guess we need somelegal definitions...

"At Will" and "Right to Work" are two different legal concepts. "At Will" is generally construed as an employer's ability to terminate your employment at any time, for any reason, but even this has exceptions. For example, you cannot be terminated for reasons relating to your race, sex or religion. There are other exceptions, but these should clearly illustrate the legal concept.

"Right to Work" has to do with labor unions and dues. In a "Right to Work" state, you cannot be forced to join a union or pay for services/representation afforded to you under the negotiated terms of a labor contract. In other words, indiviuals can reap the benefits of the union's efforts (such as wages, working conditions and benefits) but not have to pay for them. In other states, you can be forced to pay for the benefits you receive from the union's efforts even if you do not want to be a part of that union. This concept is known as the "Beck" agreement or decision.

This situation with MadisonsMomRN clearly demonstrates why it is beneficial to have a union. With a well worded and enforced contract, it is likely that the employer in this case would not have been successful in terminating her because the contract "trumps" the "At Will" ability of the employer.

Having had multiple adverse encounters with my employer over the years, I can honestly say that if not for my union contract, I probably would have been terminated a long time ago (not for my nursing ability as I am always evaluated as superior in my clinical skills) because I am frequently a thorn in the side of my employer in regards to patient/staff safety and rights. I don't want to get off track in this discussion thread about professional unions --I happen to think nurses need them and should do everything possible to organize themselves to protect themselves and their patients from the sometimes arbitrary, capricious and money grubbing wills of hospitals that sometimes forget two things: Healthcare is not like any other business where money is the bottom line. Our bottom line is making sure our patients are safe and cared for in the best possible manner; and that nurses are human also and subject to the same diseases and circumstances that "generate" our patient population. It always amazes me when employers take discliplinary action against a truely sick nurse. We frequently put our own health conserns aside to care for patients (and generate revenue for the facility) and it only logical that sometimes those contagious diseases (and back injuries) might affect those caregivers. As another poster said "...and they wonder why there is a shortage of nurses?"

MargarLdg · Oct 6, 2005

Some hospitals have a policy of termination for three absences in a rolling year, it doesn't matter if one has a doctor's excuse or not.
Good luck.

My facility has a policy also in regard to attendance with termination past 3 absences Doc excuse or not ,but we have a lot of call ins & are trying to get the call ins under control

yupyup5 · Oct 6, 2005

Couldn't you have asked for an intermittent leave of absence?

This is really making a LONG story short.
I was working as a staff rn for a state hospital. I started 3/30/05. 2 weeks later my son had seizure (he is 7)...his first one so I took him to the ER as per the pediatrician. Could not find anything. Of course I called out of work to do this. A week later he had another one...had to call out. I provided documentation to support my absence. THEN about 4 weeks ago my 18 month old daughter was hospitalized with campylobacter jejuni (have no idea HOW she came in contact with that). Anyway I spent another night in the ER and she was admitted for 2 days for hydration and IV antibiotics (thought she had a bladder infection but did not). So I could not go to work the night we were in the ER and THEN our whole family got sick with it...so I was out another day. **4 occurances total**. Camplyobactor is a foodborne illness so the health dept was notified. THEY faxed a letter to my employer stating I could not work until 48 hrs after diarrhea had stopped.
WELL...the probationary period at this facility is 6 months. At my 6 month review they called me in at 3:30pm (I worked 3-11) and said that the would be terminating my employment on 9/30/05 at the end of my probationary period due to my occurances. Talk about shocked. I had legitimate documentation...why did they asked for it? UGH!! :angryfire My review was great with the exception of this. I know there is probably nothing I can do since it is a probationary period.
What do you think??

ValerieB · Oct 6, 2005

This is really making a LONG story short.
I was working as a staff rn for a state hospital. I started 3/30/05. 2 weeks later my son had seizure (he is 7)...his first one so I took him to the ER as per the pediatrician. Could not find anything. Of course I called out of work to do this. A week later he had another one...had to call out. I provided documentation to support my absence. THEN about 4 weeks ago my 18 month old daughter was hospitalized with campylobacter jejuni (have no idea HOW she came in contact with that). Anyway I spent another night in the ER and she was admitted for 2 days for hydration and IV antibiotics (thought she had a bladder infection but did not). So I could not go to work the night we were in the ER and THEN our whole family got sick with it...so I was out another day. **4 occurances total**. Camplyobactor is a foodborne illness so the health dept was notified. THEY faxed a letter to my employer stating I could not work until 48 hrs after diarrhea had stopped.
WELL...the probationary period at this facility is 6 months. At my 6 month review they called me in at 3:30pm (I worked 3-11) and said that the would be terminating my employment on 9/30/05 at the end of my probationary period due to my occurances. Talk about shocked. I had legitimate documentation...why did they asked for it? UGH!! :angryfire My review was great with the exception of this. I know there is probably nothing I can do since it is a probationary period.
What do you think??

Unfortunately, in my hospital we have a "no fault" absentee policy. It doesn't matter why you called in sick, it's the fact that you weren't working your scheduled shift. As my mother the nurse manager would say, " I hope you had a legitimate reason". I'm sorry that this happened to you and your children, but that's why it's a probationary period and the facility can discharge you without even giving a reason. Good luck to you in the future.