Nurses and bullies...

Nurses General Nursing

Published

So, this might seem controversial, but it's something I noticed while working at a hospital for almost 3 years.

I was lucky enough to work with Physical and Occupational Therapists (so we did therapy in every department of the hospital -- sans NICU).

In saying that, I think part of the reason an NP is more appealing to me than a BSN / RN program is because I saw A LOT of bullying in the nursing field on the BSN / RN or CNA level. As an NP, I'm sure it could happen, but I feel like it would happen less at that level.

I mean some of them were just downright B-words. And, I don't chalk it up to a bad day (because this behavior was tied to them on a frequent basis when I saw them).

And while it was pretty prevalent in all levels, it seemed that the ones in charge were the worst.

It's almost like Dante's levels of H*ll in terms of moving up the ranks of mean (not including NP, CRNA, Midwife or other higher level nursing positions).

Crappy attitude, didn't want to be bothered by patients (or other healthcare workers), nasty disposition, thought highly of themselves and looked down on others etc.

I have friends and family who are nurses in hospitals, nursing homes, home health, school systems and it doesn't seem like it stops there (in terms of environment and bullying).

I've worked in a few fields and while bullying can happen anywhere, it seems like nursing has a high ratio of this type of catty, mean behavior.

It's one of the reasons I'm not sure I could handle this field.

It's not because I can't handle myself around bullies, but I know that I'd put one of these bullies in their place and probably get fired over it (because they either tend to be in charge or "in" with the people who are in charge or just lie or are manipulative).

My tolerance for that sort of behavior is really low and I'd definitely knock them off of their bully peg which wouldn't bode well for anyone involved.

So, what has your experience been with bullying in the nursing field? And, how did you handle it?

Is it as prevalent as it seems?

And, do you feel like it contributes to the issues with burn out in the nursing field?

What advice would you give to a new grad who encountered this type of behavior?

Specializes in Palliative, Onc, Med-Surg, Home Hospice.
Oceangirl,

I actually meant to title the post "Nurses and bullies" but I had already submitted and there was no way to edit the title...just the post itself, so in fairness I wasn't trying to generalize an entire field.

I will say that the hospital I worked in had quite a few bullying nurses.

To explain what I mean by bullying:

1) Standing around talking about patients, coworkers, other healthcare workers in derogatory ways (think "Mean Girls").

2) Outright rude when you would try to ask them questions about the patient before doing therapy with them.

3) Something as simple as saying "hi" and you'd get an attitude.

4) Rolling eyes when someone asked a question (whether a fellow nurse or other healthcare worker).

5) Talking down to CNAs who needed their help

Those are just a few examples.

I want to say that I'm not against nurses. As I mentioned, I have several in my family (and friends) ranging from LPN, BSN / RN and MSN and NP.

I have a lot of respect for nurses and all of the work they do.

I just didn't like the some of the nurses that I encountered at that hospital (and friends and family have stated similar occurrences at their facilities as well).

I shadowed quite a few NPs and PAs during my time at that hospital and it seemed like it wasn't as much of an issue with them.

Granted, it was a teaching hospital so perhaps things are different at other hospitals, but it left a bad taste in my mouth.

That's not bullying.

This is an example of bullying: co-worker came to unit with an attitude. We attempted to involve him in our discussion, invited him to bring food/drink for our potlucks. Made a point to make him feel welcome. Instead, he runs to the manager and complains that we are mean to him. Complains about some of the other nurses, claiming that they are bullying them. 4 nurses were written up and made to take lateral violence classes.

He complained that we never helped him. Never mind that he never asked for help. We would offer to help with his admissions, but he would say no but would you please go medicate so and so for me. He would run to the manager to claim we were bullying him when we would explain that we had to medicate our own patients but if he wanted, we would help with admission. Get mad.

Came to me and told me that two co-workers told him that he should go to the manager and report that I could have prevented a code if I had called the rapid response earlier. Turns out HE reported me to the manager and decided to blame co-workers. Fortunately, I had a good report with co-workers and was able to find out the truth.

That is an example of bullying. Being rude, having an attitude, "mean girl" discussions are not bullying. They are just plain rude!

OP - I read your post and knew exactly what you meant, you really didn't have to list examples to validate your post. It was also safe to assume that you did not mean the entire nursing profession. I am sure there is more going on than the examples you provided and quite frankly, who am I to say that your experience is lame or not real?!

Lateral violence, horizontal violence, nurse bullying or whatever anyone wants to call it, is extremely prevalent in nursing. The ANA recognizes it as a huge issue and there are thousands of nursing journal articles published on the subject. I have been to a few conferences regarding the issue. In fact, our capstone in my MSN program was "Nurse Bullying - How to Break the Cycle." This capstone topic was selected by my professor who was also employed by the ANA. So YEAH - it's a problem.

Jumping all over your post certainly isn't solving anything. I read a great quote recently.... "The biggest communication problem is we don't listen to understand.....we listen to reply"

Learn EVERYTHING you can and be the best nurse you can be. Believe me, once you are confident in your abilities, you will be affected less and less. Take your experiences and be the opposite, become a great mentor to co-workers and novice nurses - this is how you can start to break the cycle.

Don't quit nursing, quit toxic environments!

Specializes in L&D, OBED, NICU, Lactation.
OP - I read your post and knew exactly what you meant, you really didn't have to list examples to validate your post. It was also safe to assume that you did not mean the entire nursing profession. I am sure there is more going on than the examples you provided and quite frankly, who am I to say that your experience is lame or not real?!

Lateral violence, horizontal violence, nurse bullying or whatever anyone wants to call it, is extremely prevalent in nursing. The ANA recognizes it as a huge issue and there are thousands of nursing journal articles published on the subject. I have been to a few conferences regarding the issue. In fact, our capstone in my MSN program was "Nurse Bullying - How to Break the Cycle." This capstone topic was selected by my professor who was also employed by the ANA. So YEAH - it's a problem.

Jumping all over your post certainly isn't solving anything. I read a great quote recently.... "The biggest communication problem is we don't listen to understand.....we listen to reply"

Learn EVERYTHING you can and be the best nurse you can be. Believe me, once you are confident in your abilities, you will be affected less and less. Take your experiences and be the opposite, become a great mentor to co-workers and novice nurses - this is how you can start to break the cycle.

Don't quit nursing, quit toxic environments!

This, one hundred times this. If you are already formulating your response while the person is still talking, you are not listening.

As for the actual terminology, I'm with you, who cares what we call it?! It's toxic, end of story. Call people out on it, bring it into the light of day. Respond with as little emotion as possible. Actually respond with some empathy and bring it back around on them, make them think about what they are saying and why they are saying it. At the end of the day, the ONLY thing you own is YOUR reaction to the situation. If you can control that, you're already three steps ahead.

As for those problem children on units...I have managed out 'high-performers' whose toxic attitude did more damage than anything. I don't care how good of a clinical nurse you are if you cause disaster in my unit. Goodbye and good riddance! I can train those who have a great fit and good attitude to be clinically excellent, I don't need you hurting morale and driving away good employees because of your negativity.

OP - I read your post and knew exactly what you meant, you really didn't have to list examples to validate your post. It was also safe to assume that you did not mean the entire nursing profession. I am sure there is more going on than the examples you provided and quite frankly, who am I to say that your experience is lame or not real?!

Lateral violence, horizontal violence, nurse bullying or whatever anyone wants to call it, is extremely prevalent in nursing. The ANA recognizes it as a huge issue and there are thousands of nursing journal articles published on the subject. I have been to a few conferences regarding the issue. In fact, our capstone in my MSN program was "Nurse Bullying - How to Break the Cycle." This capstone topic was selected by my professor who was also employed by the ANA. So YEAH - it's a problem.

Jumping all over your post certainly isn't solving anything. I read a great quote recently.... "The biggest communication problem is we don't listen to understand.....we listen to reply"

Learn EVERYTHING you can and be the best nurse you can be. Believe me, once you are confident in your abilities, you will be affected less and less. Take your experiences and be the opposite, become a great mentor to co-workers and novice nurses - this is how you can start to break the cycle.

Don't quit nursing, quit toxic environments!

It's funny to me that you would criticize my post asking for examples, while using the quote above (bold). I was "listening" to understand. The more information provided, the better I feel I can help the OP navigate. Making assumptions and giving advice on those assumptions isn't at all helpful, IMO of course.

Language is important. I'm always surprised when people think it isn't. We should be working hard to identify what bullying is - otherwise there's no real way to address it and make positive changes going forward.

People being jerks, not saying "hi" back or talking about co-workers/patients at the nurses station is poor behavior that can really bring a unit down and make it a terrible place to work - but it's not bullying.

Saying behavior isn't bullying isn't diminishing the experience of the OP - it feels terrible when people are rude to you. She has every right to talk about her feelings and experiences.

Wouldn't you want to know if you were using language incorrectly? I sure would.

OP - my advice is that you can't control people - only your reaction to them. I'm so sorry that you've experienced so much negativity. Perhaps it's the culture of the hospital? Can you shadow a nurse in another hospital to see if you have a similar experience? Best of luck to you.

Specializes in Emergency/Cath Lab.

This **** again. Seriously.

I currently work on a unit where there is a lot of bullying from manager down to staff nurses, mostly in a passive-aggressive way. There is a combo of 12hr and 8hr people and some of the 12hr really seem to have an issue with 8hr people. you get heavier assignments, patients that are difficult, patients with families that are difficult, and if you luck out and have a decent assignment your first day on, the second day they give you a completely different assignment. If you complain to manager you're told "well, thats the 12hr people protecting themselves" if you continue to speak out you're disciplined over trivial things... You are expected to be a sheep and follow the herd and if need be sacrifice yourself to the wolf.

As for those problem children on units...I have managed out 'high-performers' whose toxic attitude did more damage than anything. I don't care how good of a clinical nurse you are if you cause disaster in my unit. Goodbye and good riddance! I can train those who have a great fit and good attitude to be clinically excellent, I don't need you hurting morale and driving away good employees because of your negativity.

It's too bad there aren't more managers like you. My favorite manager was just like this. She didn't tolerate anyone who wasn't a team player. Toxic employees didn't last long in our unit.

Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
So, this might seem controversial, but it's something I noticed while working at a hospital for almost 3 years.

I was lucky enough to work with Physical and Occupational Therapists (so we did therapy in every department of the hospital -- sans NICU).

In saying that, I think part of the reason an NP is more appealing to me than a BSN / RN program is because I saw A LOT of bullying in the nursing field on the BSN / RN or CNA level. As an NP, I'm sure it could happen, but I feel like it would happen less at that level.

I mean some of them were just downright B-words. And, I don't chalk it up to a bad day (because this behavior was tied to them on a frequent basis when I saw them).

And while it was pretty prevalent in all levels, it seemed that the ones in charge were the worst.

It's almost like Dante's levels of H*ll in terms of moving up the ranks of mean (not including NP, CRNA, Midwife or other higher level nursing positions).

Crappy attitude, didn't want to be bothered by patients (or other healthcare workers), nasty disposition, thought highly of themselves and looked down on others etc.

I have friends and family who are nurses in hospitals, nursing homes, home health, school systems and it doesn't seem like it stops there (in terms of environment and bullying).

I've worked in a few fields and while bullying can happen anywhere, it seems like nursing has a high ratio of this type of catty, mean behavior.

It's one of the reasons I'm not sure I could handle this field.

It's not because I can't handle myself around bullies, but I know that I'd put one of these bullies in their place and probably get fired over it (because they either tend to be in charge or "in" with the people who are in charge or just lie or are manipulative).

My tolerance for that sort of behavior is really low and I'd definitely knock them off of their bully peg which wouldn't bode well for anyone involved.

So, what has your experience been with bullying in the nursing field? And, how did you handle it?

Is it as prevalent as it seems?

And, do you feel like it contributes to the issues with burn out in the nursing field?

What advice would you give to a new grad who encountered this type of behavior?

There are indeed bullies in the nursing field. I've encountered two in my forty years at the bedside. That's not indicative of a profession "teeming with bullies."

If you go looking for bullies, you will find them -- whether or not there are actually any bullies. If you go looking to "put one of those bullies in their place," you ARE the bully. In fact, the majority of your very negative post suggests to me that you are the bully you're so worried about encountering. If you meet a donkey one day, you've met a donkey. If everyone you meet is a donkey, then YOU are the donkey.

(Think of another word for donkey.)

There are indeed bullies in the nursing field. I've encountered two in my forty years at the bedside. That's not indicative of a profession "teeming with bullies."

If you go looking for bullies, you will find them -- whether or not there are actually any bullies. If you go looking to "put one of those bullies in their place," you ARE the bully. In fact, the majority of your very negative post suggests to me that you are the bully you're so worried about encountering. If you meet a donkey one day, you've met a donkey. If everyone you meet is a donkey, then YOU are the donkey.

(Think of another word for donkey.)

Hmmm, I think there is a difference between "looking for bullies" and "observing my environment."

In terms of "bullying" and its definition, I tend to reference the APA for context:

"Bullying is a form of aggressive behavior in which someone intentionally and repeatedly causes another person injury or discomfort. Bullying can take the form of physical contact, words or more subtle actions.

The bullied individual typically has trouble defending him or herself and does nothing to "cause" the bullying."

Source: Bullying

I will say though, at the end of the day, it boils down to semantics. I will not discredit someone else's experience with bullying based on my own subjective definition of it.

And, I don't think me stating that I would stick up for myself (or others) against bullying therefore makes me a bully, but again, that's just my perception of the situation.

I think perhaps some previous posters were correct in that it may have been an environmental situation and cultural norm at the hospital where I worked.

And, as I've stated, it wasn't ALL nurses, but it was quite a few (and from the feedback I've received from other people in other facilities, it wasn't just tied to where I was located).

If my post came across as negative, it may be because this is a negative topic and there really is no nice way to sugarcoat the caustic behavior of adults that brings forth negative impact towards other adults.

It was in no way condemning all of nursing though.

It was more inquisitive in nature, asking how many others have experienced this and if it was part of the possible burn out of nurses, and how they've handled it.

I'm sorry if I am late, but the title didn't seem generalized to Nurses. I thought it was about nurses and other staff who are bullies

I'm sorry if I am late, but the title didn't seem generalized to Nurses. I thought it was about nurses and other staff who are bullies

The title was changed from "Nurses are bullies".

When we define bullying as "she didn't say hi back to me," we are diluting the impact of the word down to meaningless chatter. JMO.

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