Is there a feeling of entitlment among new grads? - page 2
I posted this is the New Grad forum, but want to post it here as well to get some thoughts and feeling of those with experience and different perspective. I am in the grad class of May 09. As a... Read More
May 9, '09Joined: Jan '09; Posts: 5,390; Likes: 10,366Everyone is entitled.
Sure I chose nursing because I am intersted in it, but it is in the end, just a job, in no way to be held in higher regard than any other I've had. We all are entitled to want the best situation we can get. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. If you feel some sort of entitlement you will tend to strive for the things you want proactively. The chances are higher you will get them as well.
May 9, '09Joined: Jun '02; Posts: 14,165; Likes: 59,216is there a sense of entitlement among new grads? in a word, yes!
in the past ten years or so, the new grads -- and let me make it clear that i'm speaking mostly about new grads who are in their first career, not second career grads -- seem to disdain working nights, weekends, holidays. they want to start out in the specialty of their choice, don't think they should have to work christmas or new year's and expect straight days from the get go. if they don't immediately get what they want, they threaten to leave. some have left, and regret it because the job market has dried up and they're not getting the fabulous new job without nights, weekends, holidays or bodily fluids that they seemed to think was going to miraculously open up for them. many went back to become nps or crnas, and i'm told that in their new careers they exhibit the same sense of entitlement. (i'll never forget the brand new np who threw a two-year-old's temper tantrum when informed that she would be orienting on nights because her preceptor was working nights, and she'd be expected to work nights once she was off orientation. she no longer works here.)
i guess i can't say that new grads feel entitled, but i'll certainly vouch for the fact that many of them act as though they feel entitled!
May 9, '09Occupation: Registered Nurse Specialty: Med/Surg ; From: US ; Joined: Sep '08; Posts: 1,577; Likes: 2,726Quote from hypocaffeinemiaBut this is nothing different than what every nurse has done to become a nurse. No one can help what the economy is right now....I know where I am, we don't have the positions. For anybody. Someone just graduating is not going to be more likely to get a job than someone who ALSO graduated, and has put the time in to the facility already. That's just the way it is.If you call "expecting to find a position in the profession you just spend 3+ years and thousands of dollars training for" a sense of entitlement, sign me and my classmates up.
Luckily, I've been more fortunate than most of them.
May 9, '09Occupation: RN Specialty: CICU ; From: US ; Joined: Sep '07; Posts: 1,125; Likes: 1,939Quote from MesaRNWhere are these unfilled extern positions? I'd LOVE one!...paid externships from the local hospital have gone unfilled.
May 9, '09From: US ; Joined: Apr '09; Posts: 288; Likes: 161seem to disdain working nights, weekends, holidays. they want to start out in the specialty of their choice, don't think they should have to work christmas or new year's and expect straight days from the get go.
i on the other hand would love to take a night position and weekends. my weekends are whenever i'm off, not sat. sun,
May 9, '09Occupation: Ubermom Specialty: 19 year(s) of experience in M/S, MICU, CVICU, SICU, ER, Trauma, NICU ; From: US ; Joined: May '09; Posts: 2,289; Likes: 4,049It's the "millenial" generation effect. I think they are in shell-shock when they realize that they're not always going to get what they want.
Life's not fair. *shrugs*
May 9, '09Occupation: RN Specialty: Critical Care ; Joined: Feb '06; Posts: 2,125; Likes: 3,657Quote from ruby vee[b][/b]is there a sense of entitlement among new grads? in a word, yes!
in the past ten years or so, the new grads -- and let me make it clear that i'm speaking mostly about new grads who are in their first career, not second career grads -- seem to disdain working nights, weekends, holidays. they want to start out in the specialty of their choice, don't think they should have to work christmas or new year's and expect straight days from the get go. if they don't immediately get what they want, they threaten to leave.Quote from jopacurnis the generation effect of past generations a lack of reading comprehension or something?it's the "millenial" generation effect. i think they are in shell-shock when they realize that they're not always going to get what they want.
life's not fair. *shrugs*
i feel like i'm talking to a brick wall when i try explaining that no jobs are physically extant. i'm not just talking about cushy, no weekend, daytime internship programs in a specialty area. the night, weekend, med/surg and ltach jobs are nowhere to be found, either. trust me, my class has cast the net far and wide. applying for hospice, home health, school nursing, all levels of acute care, clinics, and so on. the jobs are scarce and the ones that have jobs generally have them through actively working there in a uap role (like me).
i have friends that've been night shift lvns for 5+ years who bridged to rn with me. they can't get even med/surg jobs despite past med/surg lvn experience because of a hiring freeze on new grads (even when jobs for "experienced nurses" are available).
i have friends that've been mid-level managers at places like hp for years before entering nursing. one guy in particular is hitting every job fair in a 50 mile radius. he can't even get an interview because he's a new grad and there's an absolute lockdown on new grads.
May 9, '09Joined: May '09; Posts: 42; Likes: 49A couple of weeks ago the local news channel went to the local big hospital talking about how there is a hiring freeze and they won't interview any nursing student graduates (three schools in a 50 miles radius). The person they interviewed for was scared the nurses that are graduating now are going to leave the field because there aren't any jobs for them. Where are these nurses going to go? Last time I checked the only "in demand" jobs these days are for med lab tech, customer service and green jobs (if you have specific degrees like accounting). Even some people that work in a hospital for a living lack a real world perspective. The nurses that you are talking about, OP, is not lazyness, its a factor of the job market and ignorance upon their part...........thinking there will be a job for them at the end just because they went to nursing school. The media has been talking about nursing shortages for years and years. This translates to young people going to college for nursing school because they will have a job at the end (lol). That isn't reality anymore.
I'm going back to school to take a few classes, take the MCAT and apply to medical school. When I was in college, I worked as a CNA 3rd shift of Friday, Saturday and Sunday night. I also cleaned toilets for $11/hr during the late weeknights and I also worked a student job. I worked 55 hrs/wk. Most of the students in my class (and before and after) just went to class and got drunk every weekend. A couple of them actually worked. They ******* and complained about not getting their job in Arizona and now ***** and complain about having to take a job in Milwaukee. These nurses are still acting like its the end of the world and they will never get to Arizona and never get back to school for that CRNA schooling (almost all of them want to be come CRNA's). I'm sure most will leave nursing when the job market improves.
May 10, '09Joined: Aug '05; Posts: 651; Likes: 549Looking at it logically, you have a whole class of graduates ALL hunting jobs wanting ones with certain specialties/hours/pay. Then you have the work-force that have experience ALSO wanting certain specialties/hours/pay, the facillities are going to hire their own first in fact most have internal jobs posted a week or two before they are even posted outside the facillity. I never thought I could get a job with exact hours etc. I wanted and crossed my fingers I could get one at all. I started working part-time at the place I wanted to work when graduated the last year of nursing and had NO problem getting a position at that place. If "entitlement" means you expect to be handed something with no effort, then those that DO expect that in the modern work-force are going to have problems.
May 10, '09Occupation: NICU Specialty: 6 year(s) of experience in NICU; Coordinator of Clin Documentation ; From: US ; Joined: Jun '08; Posts: 2,875; Likes: 5,263I never quite know how to reply to these "Those OTHER people do THIS negative thing, but *I*....GLORIOUS ME!, would never do that. Instead, I do all of THIS <list various Mother Theresa attributes>, and I AM LOVEEEEEEEEEED!" posts, so I usually find it best not to respond at all.
May 10, '09From: IL, US ; Joined: May '09; Posts: 238; Likes: 314I am not a new grad but have been a nurse for 18 years. The last 6 years as a DON. I would like to comment on this to benefit those that are still seeking employment and especially for those still in school.
A few years ago I had an experience where all the new grads would come to me for a job, only want to work days, no weekends or only 1 day on the weekend and they wanted $6 - $8 more than I could pay them, with all the benefits! To top this off, they were very unteachable, after they did go to school!
Now, I don't blame them, after all the whole country has been told over and over again what a terrible nursing shortage there is. In order to get people to get into nursing, the instructors had to really pump them up for their 'demands'. And yes, they did demand!
Todays new grad is having a much harder time. They come to me almost pleading. They are much better prepared for the interview process (including bringing endorsements from the nurses that they got to know during clinicals and sending a thank you note!). I rarely see those demanding. behaviors anymore. And if I do, I simply thank them for their time.
I do hire new grads . . . one at a time. This is simply because I have been burned too many times. I put extensive time into training. The preceptor is hand picked. A proficiency exam is given (actually, I have them take it with them with the expectation that by the end of orientation, they will have actually completed all tasks with another nurse to watch). Too many new nurses have not completed so many clinical skills, so this is why I do this.
Advice for the nursing student, listen in report for any procedure that you have not done and ask that nurse if you could do it while she watches. I can't stress this enough. The more procedures that you are comfortable with, the easier it will be to get a job.
I send them to every training class that I believe will benefit them. All too many times, after the training is complete, they quit to 'get a better paying job' now that they have 'experience'. Later, when that job didn't work out (there is a reason that some facilities pay very well and them beg you to come work for them and they aren't good reasons) they come back to me for a job. Something that should never be done is to burn bridges, which several of these nurses did.
There was another post by a nurse that just kept calling and did get the job. Sometimes you have to be politely persistant and check back after a month. I wish you all the best of luck! And hang in there, the jobs will open for you.
May 10, '09Occupation: Licensed Practical Nurse Specialty: Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health ; From: US ; Joined: Sep '05; Posts: 9,297; Likes: 8,221Quote from strong_willedThis is what I notice more than anything else; new grads expecting choice shifts and positions before they got their feet wet. That is nonsense. Regarding their expectations to receive a job after being constantly reminded that there is a nursing shortage...well, I can't say I blame the new grads for that. In my area, before the economic crisis, it was easier to obtain a position within a few months. Now, there is no time to train people and since they are laying off incumbant nurses, at this time, they want people who can come in running. Also, more people are applying for agency jobs because the jobs laying off would rather not pay for health insurance.I just finished RN-BSN program, and many of the 4 yr traditional BSNs are very upset because they "have" to work Med-Surg instead of ICU or OB, night shift instead of days, and worse yet...weekends!...those of us who were in the bridge program just shake our heads, wondering why these younger folks think they should get to start at the top instead or working their way up--I don't wish to offend anyone young, but it's mostly the younger graduates, although I've heard some of the older students comment as well. And unfortunately, this isn't the case with just nursing....it's rampant in just about every field.
I am not sure about grouping all of them into saying they have a sense of entitlement, but those who are naive enough to expect that they will have the choice shifts and positions immediately are fooling themselves.
The OP, however, listed excellent suggestions to get the ball rolling for those determined enough to succeed.
May 10, '09Joined: Apr '05; Posts: 808; Likes: 1,109I think, hon, that you'd be singing a different song if you WEREN'T lucky enough to have a job--and yes, I said "lucky". I'm very glad you have a job; you deserve it. But I'm sure, reading over all the posts, here, you've seen many, many posts that read "I graduated at the top of my class, made Sigma Theta Tau, got great evaluations in clinical, volunteered through the Red Cross, worked as an extern, and still haven't been able to find a job". If you lived in an area with fewer jobs, that would be YOU.
I think, also, of the many people in nursing school who just don't have the time to do some of the things you mention. Every out-of-class lecture they attend means hiring a babysitter. Working as an extern means giving up another job that pays twice as much and provides benefits for the family. I'm not saying any of those people should get a job before someone who is able to do those things and make the connections; that's not the way the world works. But some of those people, no matter how much they wanted to be nurses, might not have chosen to go to nursing school if they knew they'd have to do those things outside of school and then maybe not have a job after graduation anyway. It wouldn't have been practical for their families. That doesn't mean they shouldn't have been nurses anyway or anything like that; I praise them for their practical thinking when choosing a career, and now I feel sad for them.
I do get tired of hearing, also, about the employment cycles, how this is "just like" when happened in the 1990s and during other periods. I've never heard of any time as bad as this, to be honest. People who became nurses during the early 90s have told me about having to take a job on a unit they didn't want because that's where the jobs were. One nurse talked about working as a CNA for a few months until something opened up. I haven't heard anyone say they were out of work for over a year, and there seem to be a number of new grads in that situation here on Allnurses. I wish people would stop saying "It was the same way when I graduated--I had to work LTC, now go pay your dues like I did". It isn't the same way, it's worse. And LTC jobs aren't so easy to find.
Thank goodness, I was able to relocate to find a job. Eventually.