Different pay and responsibility for 2 year RN's VS 4 year RN's - page 8
I'm completing an RN to BSN program in 2 months. I have learned so much in the BSN program I wish I had taken it sooner. The additional education has taught me skills I never learned in trainings,... Read More
Feb 11, '03Originally posted by purplemania
Our facility pays $1.10/hr more for BSN. They also pay tuition so Iafter my ADN I pursued BSN. I too learned more than expected.
That being said, I agree that this is something that has been debated to death and likely something that nurses will never agree on. Perhaps nurses who have only ever had a BSN, or only ever had an ADN, aren't really seeing the whole picture because they have never been a nurse with both degrees. Most nurses I have talked to seemed happy that they went on to get their BSN after their ADN. I would be interested to hear, are there any nurses on this board that started with their ADN and regretted spending the time and money to later get their BSN?Last edit by EmeraldNYL on Feb 11, '03
Feb 11, '03Okay I confess, I haven't taken the time to read every post on this thread (its a topic that has been debated to DEATH!)
IMHO--patients don't really care the degree of the nurse caring for them, as long as the nurse CARES for them. I also firmly believe that a good nurse will be a good nurse regardless of her educational level--just as a (excuse my language) "sucky" nurse will be a "sucky" nurse no matter how many letters she adds after her name. Of course--with all due respect, and again just my humble opinion
Feb 11, '03Lrae.... I am not seeing anything that was arrogantly quoted. Please direct me to what you are refering to. You are quoting another poster on the board and then directing your comments towards me.
This is what I quoted and then subsequently posted.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by kasey14546
[ I'm surprised at how many of you commented that experience was more important than education. I agree that experience is very important and that education has little value without the experience to back it up. However, to become nurses we needed specialized training in this field. That training is the back bone of our experience. If you feel that education is that meaningless you back up the claim that techs can replace us if they are trained.
(ABOVE QUOTED PORTION)
I couldn't agree with you more there! You pretty much have summed up exactly why it is important that nursing take the step that so many other professions have done in order to "raise the bar". No one is saying that an ADN or a is not a good nurse.
The point is that by requiring a BSN or moving towards a BSN will in turn help the nursing profession. PT did this....they went from Bachelor's entry to Master's and now there is talk of PhD entry, Pharmacists did this...the majority of the programs are MS only now, and the list goes on.
We all complain that nurses don't get the respect and pay they deserve. Well certain things will do this. Upping the education requirements is one of these.
(ABOVE MY POST)
An interesting side.... a few years back...mid 90s PT was in huge huge demand....the jobmarket was at least 3 jobs per PT grad. Subsequently was about the same time that the MS become pretty much standard for entry level. The competition for jobs is now much more competitive and infact, that "shortage" which once existed is now diminishing away.
Granted, one example cannot prove that it will "help" the cause of nursing. But we are not discussing the nursing shortage here. We are talking about educational requirements for practice. Raising the "bar" for educational requirements for entry level will make nursing more of a profession and less of a vocation which is what it has been trying to do for years.Last edit by New CCU RN on Feb 11, '03
Feb 11, '03I would be interested to hear, are there any nurses on this board that started with their ADN and regretted spending the time and money to later get their BSN?
Feb 11, '03This is a sensitive issue with me and perhaps I am being too sensitive, but I really hate it when people refer to my educational acheivements as "letters behind my name" or "alphabet soup."
My degrees are much more than simply adding letters behind my name. There is so much more: hard work, dedication, sacrifice and knowledge gained. Please don't patronize or belittle that by oversimplifying my degrees as "letter behind my name."
Feb 11, '03Personally, I think increased education is a good thing, and anyone who has completed additional degrees has my respect.
I think what bothers me the most is people stating, overtly or covertly, that diploma and ADN nurses diminish the profession. So just as someone may feel hurt by the "alphabet soup" comment, I am hurt by that kind of commentary, too. I feel after 18y I have valuable things to contribute too, degree or no degree.
And I also think that this is a subject that you cannot fully debate until you are in the workforce and have some experience at what "real life" is.
Feb 11, '03I usually try to stay out of these threads that have to do with ADN vs diploma vs BSN. I try but it's difficult, so now I'll offer my 2 cents:
Firstly, I read someone's post back there that stated the only place she ever hears this argument come up is on the Internet...never in the workplace. I agree with that. I never hear it in the workplace, and frankly I don't even know what the educatonal background of most of the nurses I work with is. And more importantly, I don't care.
Secondly, I really get tired of hearing the comments about how you or he or she or whatever knows lots of ADNs who run circles around BSNs. So what. Being a BSN grad myself, I get offended by the comments of how my program was so inferior because it wasnt' an ADN or diploma program. Yes, I did have to take English lit, and pulic speaking, and several other goofy courses, but I also spent more than 1500 hours in clinicals in addition to more than 125 hours in skills labs practicing on dummies before patients, performed tons of nursing procedures, and I am more than just book-smart. It never fails though, that in these discussions, that is always something that gets thrown around (how other nurses were so much more clinically prepared than BSNs were). It's simply not true, at least not in every case, and it is as insulting to the BSN prepared nurse as it is to imply to the ADN nurse that she/he is inferior because she/he didn't go to school quite as long.
The last thing I'd like to remark about is the advancement of the profession. Though I can see the point that many of you make thinking that "raising the bar" for entry level nursing will garnish some respect for our profession, I humbly disagree. My husband is an FAA licensed airframes and powerplant mechanic & doesn't hold a degree of any kind, and yet people in his profession are respected and regarded as being intelligent people. I don't know what all the reasons are that we as nurses aren't seen as knowledgable, skilled professionals, but it seems to me that when other professions are regarded as such without even the kind of educational requirements that we as RNs must obtain, well there must be some other reasons for that lack of respect.
Just my two cents. I respect you all as collegues, regardless of education, experience, etc. I respect all of you for choosing to be a part of such a demanding and caring profession, and I would hope that we can all just learn to value, respect, and learn from each other.
Convicted of placenta previa & serving time on couch arrest ~ Day 40
Feb 11, '03I think what bothers me the most is people stating, overtly or covertly, that diploma and ADN nurses diminish the profession. So just as someone may feel hurt by the "alphabet soup" comment, I am hurt by that kind of commentary, too. I feel after 18y I have valuable things to contribute too, degree or no degree.
I'm not sure how to phrase this, but by someone stating that having a BSN will increase professionalism in nursing, does that necessarily mean that ADNs/diploma diminish it? I guess, is there always an implied negative? Cause I know I sure don't mean it that way, and I'm pretty confident others don't.
Do you get what I'm asking?
Feb 11, '03I agree with you SusyK..... no one is (at least I think) is trying to make derogatory comments. It isn't meant to be personal.
Fab I am sure you are an awesome nurse, and this "debate" isn't saying that ADN or diploma nurses aren't good nurses and don't contribute to the nursing field.
Feb 11, '03[QUOTE]Originally posted by EmeraldNYL
[ I don't think this is right considering the BSN has more education, and therefore more skills.
All I can say to this is Bullstool!!!!!!!
Feb 11, '03I think what it all boils down to is that some people value formal education and some people don't. Very few nurses--and none, I think, here--are arguing that experience isn't an important and necessary teacher in addition to formal education. But that never seems to be clearly understood in these discussions.
Feb 11, '03Experience is an important and necessary teacher in addition to formal education.