Different pay and responsibility for 2 year RN's VS 4 year RN's

[kasey14546]

I'm completing an RN to BSN program in 2 months. I have learned so much in the BSN program I wish I had taken it sooner. The additional education has taught me skills I never learned in trainings, or by experience.

I think that just as there is a difference in the tasks an RN and LPN can preform, there should also be a difference in what a two year RN can do, in comparison to a RN with a BSN. The 2 year RN should not be in leadeership or management positions since they have not been trained in accredeited colleges for this skill. The BSN has. I'm sure the 2 yers RN's will disagree with me, and 2 years ago I would have disagreed also. However, after being able to compare the two from personal experience, I feel the BSN is more educated for leadership and management. The BSN nurse should be paid more, and should be the starting educational level for these positions.

Most professions have at least a 4 year degree. Nurses need to improve their educational standing to be equal with other professional fields.

[l.rae]

Originally posted by fab4fan

No, her eruite commentaries are based on her experiences as a STUDENT NURSE!!!!! Like I said, no experience to give her the background to speak with such authority.

Leah, I guess you and I will just have to ride off in the sunset, now...this town ain't big enough (oh, wait, I'm afraid of horses...we'll have to drive off into the sunset).

Beam me up fab4......yipppekiiyiiyeah!...

[EmeraldNYL, BSN, RN]

Like I said, I would like to have a reasonable, mature debate without throwing insults back and forth. But since l.rae and fab4fan are obviously incapable of discussing this issue in a mature and reasonable matter without resorting to childish insults, I will cease to participate in this conversation (if you can call it that). I'm sorry you feel the need to insult everyone who has a differing opinion from you. If anyone is interested in discussing this issue in a polite and respectful manner, please let me know.

[fab4fan]

Emerald, you fired this first shot in this war when you said that BSN's were more skilled...that is patently untrue. If you were in the position of Leah or me, having worked hard to get specialty certs. and develop skills in multiple areas of nursing, maybe you would understand how patronizing your comments are...particularly coming from someone young enough to be my daughter.

Truth be told, I do think a BSN is a good thing to have; I've been working on mine for several years. But there's a whale of a lot of learning that can happen outside of a classroom and I am sorry that you fail to see that.

If your arguement that the profession would gain status if BSN was the minimum entry level, then this argument would have ended 40 years ago. Since it hasn't, can you see that there might just be some benefit to having diploma/ADN/LPN? Holy Moses, we are in a major nursing crisis...do you really want to clear the decks and have only BSN's working? We don't have enough nurses as it is.

I hope that time and experience will temper your attitude a bit...if that doesn't happen, God help you.

[l.rae]

Originally posted by EmeraldNYL

Like I said, I would like to have a reasonable, mature debate without throwing insults back and forth. But since l.rae and fab4fan are obviously incapable of discussing this issue in a mature and reasonable matter without resorting to childish insults, I will cease to participate in this conversation (if you can call it that). I'm sorry you feel the need to insult everyone who has a differing opinion from you. If anyone is interested in discussing this issue in a polite and respectful manner, please let me know.

Maybe after you appologise to all the lowely ADN's and LPN's and Diploma RN's....THAT would be polite and respectful....the ball's in YOUR court!...........LR

[Sally_ICURN]

Originally posted by EmeraldNYL

...the BSN has more education, and therefore more skills.

True skill only comes with experience in this profession. School can show you how and lay the foundation for becoming a skillful nurse, but until you can apply what you've learned, and learn from your mistakes, and then teach what you have learned over and over and over and over again...successfully, then and only then, does one possess the skills of nursing.

I think there's a huge difference between nursing skills, which is "doing things" and the process that a nurse goes through to determine "what needs to be done." One cannot possibly do the first without having a firm grasp on the later.

Nursing school is to train us to think using nursing's own unique scientific method (nursing process) and each and every nursing program in the country, be it ADN, ASN, BSN has to meet the requirement to teach the nursing process to be accredited by the NLN - the professional association for nurse educators. The extras that are taught in a BSN program are nice but are also unnecessary UNLESS one plans to go into management, OR nursing decides to require a more uniform education among it's members.

One degree does not make a better nurse than the other.

~Sally

[l.rae]

Originally posted by Sally_ICURN

True skill only comes with experience in this profession. School can show you how and lay the foundation for becoming a skillful nurse, but until you can apply what you've learned, and learn from your mistakes, and then teach what you have learned over and over and over and over again...successfully, then and only then, does one possess the skills of nursing.

I think there's a huge difference between nursing skills, which is "doing things" and the process that a nurse goes through to determine "what needs to be done." One cannot possibly do the first without having a firm grasp on the later.

Nursing school is to train us to think using nursing's own unique scientific method (nursing process) and each and every nursing program in the country, be it ADN, ASN, BSN has to meet the requirement to teach the nursing process to be accredited by the NLN - the professional association for nurse educators. The extras that are taught in a BSN program are nice but are also unnecessary UNLESS one plans to go into management, OR nursing decides to require a more uniform education among it's members.

One degree does not make a better nurse than the other.

~Sally

polite/respectful/bullseye!

[Sally_ICURN]

The only place I ever hear this topic discussed in online. I never hear it at work, except I love hearing stories from diploma nurses and what it was like "back in the day."

We are ALL taught the nursing process. It's the SAME no matter where one is educated. There may be better instructors in some places than others, but the point is that we are all learning the same stuff in order to practice nursing. The thing is, not everyone possesses the critical thinking skills that are so fundamental to nursing. I mean, not everyone progressses or continues to "get it" deeper and deeper with each experience.

I think it's a uniquely individual thing that is not based on a degree.

[NicuGal, MSN, RN]

After 16 years in this profession, I can say that the BSN's we get are least prepared for actual floor nursing. Way back when the diploma grads were still the norm, those girls rocked! A diploma grad had oodles of practical time and had some great skills, not to mention time management.

I have to agree, BSN's for management....yes. Here at the hospital I work at you have to have or get your master's within a 2 year period to be management. But as for more responisiblities...if the BSN"s want to be in charge everyday and have more liberties...go for it! LOL!

IMHO, a nurse is a nurse when it comes down to it. We all do the same thing, follow the same critical pathways and protocols. When you are on the floor, does it really matter what you are?

[mattsmom81]

Emerald, this subject has been dragged up and beat on this forum more times than you can count. Simply said... we are TIRED of debating it...and it seems it is some of the new grad or student BSN's on up who want to debate their superiority...so that is why you have recieved a less than stellar response to your statement.

Do a search and read the mountains of comments on the subject if you wish.

For the record, I would welcome BSN as entry level if only to unite our profession, something that is sorely needed. I would insist on being grandfathered in...don't force me to repeat courses I've already taken...that would get me to retire in a heartbeat. And add to the 'shortage'.

But when the 'superiority' angle starts, us old diplomas and ADN's and experienced LPN's tend to get a bit rankled... and for just cause, IMHO.

[P_RN, ADN, RN]

Watch the personal attacks please.

P

[kasey14546]

I want to thank all of you for responding to my original posting. I should have said in the original one that I have been an RN since 1988 and most of that time have been in charge of the units I was on.

I still say that I believe that management and leadership positions should start with a BSN education. Although I ran the units well with the ADN, I believe I could have done a better job with the BSN education.

I'm surprised at how many of you commented that experience was more important than education. I agree that experience is very important and that education has little value without the experience to back it up. However, to become nurses we needed specialized training in this field. That training is the back bone of our experience. If you feel that education is that meaningless you back up the claim that techs can replace us if they are trained.

Education is important, and it needs to be combined with experience for a complete nurse. The more education you can add to your foundation of nursing, the higher you can build your level of experience.

[fab4fan]

Sorry P_RN; I guess I am just sick and tired of hearing this, esp. from people that do not have the exp. to back up their claims.

I'll try to temper my replies in the future.