I'm completing an RN to BSN program in 2 months. I have learned so much in the BSN program I wish I had taken it sooner. The additional education has taught me skills I never learned in trainings, or by experience.
I think that just as there is a difference in the tasks an RN and LPN can preform, there should also be a difference in what a two year RN can do, in comparison to a RN with a BSN. The 2 year RN should not be in leadeership or management positions since they have not been trained in accredeited colleges for this skill. The BSN has. I'm sure the 2 yers RN's will disagree with me, and 2 years ago I would have disagreed also. However, after being able to compare the two from personal experience, I feel the BSN is more educated for leadership and management. The BSN nurse should be paid more, and should be the starting educational level for these positions.
Most professions have at least a 4 year degree. Nurses need to improve their educational standing to be equal with other professional fields.
Old diploma nurse here. took classes toward BSN--then I looked at the pay difference and said FOR WHAT??? Have had 2 separate management positions (with my diploma)-- Took a management class--did better than the BSN variety---You are either a leader or you are not.--- I have a well rounded education, as I have studied many different things over time--remember I said I was "old diploma nurse". It never ceases to amaze me how uneducated the "educated" have appeared to be at times. They may have BSN's but many I've encountered are more concerned with their hair, nails and make-up than in what is being presented to them in report!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND I have worked with LPN's who have more on the ball as far as patient assessment skills than the BSN's I've seen on the whole over time. Perhaps it's an age thing but.............I don't see where a BSN makes a better nurse-------------SORRY!!!!!!!!!!!I know I'm asking for trouble with that:devil:
The same old controversy. You know how the saying goes, You don't have to extinguish someone else's light to make yours shine brighter. Why do we always have to tear down "the other?" I.e., ADN is better than BSN...BSN is better than ADN...Diploma can dance rings around BSN. What's the point?!!!!!!!!!!!!
We are having bigger problems in nursing right now than whose degree is best!
You aren't going to win this argument no matter who you are! (My program was better than yours, naa naaa naaa naaaa naaaaaaaaaaaaa!). It is so juvenile.
Like you, I can of course, think of LVNs who are better nurses than some BSNs. I also know some BSNs who dance rings around ADNS. And I know ADNs who can make some BSNs look like infants.Blah, blah, Blah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What is the point!!!!!????????????? WE will never agree on this, folks.
Nursing is hard enough. Can't we at least agree on one thing... we are all nurses, all on the same team!!!!!
No wonder we are burning out, giving up. Do we always have to resort to tearing eachother apart!????? Why can't we support each other???????????????????
Specializes in pre hospital, ED, Cath Lab, Case Manager.
"Emerald: I really hope that when you are working as a GN, you can find it in your heart to have a little appreciation for the lowly diploma, ADN, and LPN's who will be helping you find your way.
Elitist attitudes have no place in the profession."
I couldn't agree more.
As an old diploma grad I get tired of some BSN grads looking down on those who are not. I chose that path because I looked around at the nurses I admired most. They were all diploma grads. I had a degree in another field, and actually took longer to go through the diploma program than had I gone for a BSN.
Fab4fan and Mishl, I certainly don't think I have an elitist attitude, but I do think my opinion certainly has merit. Rather than just verbally insulting me and saying "Boo hiss", why don't you construct a reasonable, sound argument to the contrary? I'm not interested in a flame war here; I'm interested in sharing opinions and having a mature, educated debate with other nurses about issues, such as education, that affect us. I'm not interested in tearing anyone down or saying that I'm better than anyone else... however, I DO believe that a more uniform educational standard would help to advance our profession, both in salary and respect. I believe that education is a very powerful thing and that as nurses, we can use our education to our advantage to lobby for greater professional status. Just my HUMBLE opinion.
Fab4fan and Mishl, I certainly don't think I have an elitist attitude, but I do think my opinion certainly has merit. Rather than just verbally insulting me and saying "Boo hiss", why don't you construct a reasonable, sound argument to the contrary? I'm not interested in a flame war here; I'm interested in sharing opinions and having a mature, educated debate with other nurses about issues, such as education, that affect us. I'm not interested in tearing anyone down or saying that I'm better than anyone else... however, I DO believe that a more uniform educational standard would help to advance our profession, both in salary and respect. I believe that education is a very powerful thing and that as nurses, we can use our education to our advantage to lobby for greater professional status. Just my HUMBLE opinion.
"I don't think this is right considering the BSN has more education, and therefore more skills."
And you expect us to ignore this comment??? Yes, a more uniform educational program is desperately needed in nursing, as I have stated many times on this board. However, you cannot assume that more education = more skills. Have you worked with BSN prepared nurses right out of school? There is a place in nursing for all degrees, not just the advanced degree. And what does the PhD have to do with us? Is that what you want??? I am not in nursing for professional status...and if you are...I am sorry. You don't automatically get respect from going to school and earning degrees. At least not from me. I don't believe I ever used the word elitest, either. Although that seems to be the required course in most BSN programs nowadays.
OK speaking as a BSN, I felt as I graduated that I wasn't prepared to work with patients. We might have more theory, but our clinicals were about 20 hours a week our senior year. The majority of us on evaluating the BSN program didn't feel we had enough hands on and wasn't prepared. We were told that they weren't getting us ready to be floor nurses, rather to be management. Now, how many nurses go right from college to manangement??? At my hospital BSN nurses were passed over for management positions....so....having the BSN doesn't always guarantee you management positions.....As someone said before a NURSE IS A NURSE IS A NURSE......in my humble opinion....
Fab4fan and Mishl, I certainly don't think I have an elitist attitude, but I do think my opinion certainly has merit. ..... why don't you construct a reasonable, sound argument to the contrary?
You have been given MANY reasonable sound arguments....trust my 22 yr experience, they are right......l won't reiterate......check my original post...........LR
Emerald, you are just begging for every ounce of Irish temper I have, but I will try to give you a restrained, reasonable answer.
There is no doubt that BSN programs are lacking when compared to diploma/ADN programs when it somes to clinical. What good is it to say, "I understand the theory of giving insulin, but I've never done it"...fat help to the diabetic pt. (and yes, this is a true life example).
When you beat that drum of "BSN is best", it is like you are implying that there is nothing to be learned from nurses who have other educational backgrounds. Heck, I've learned things from our ED aide, and I'm not ashamed to admit it.
All I can say is, those of us who have actually been nurses for years have seen how little difference there is when it comes to hands on nursing and BSN vs diploma/ADN. You do not have the benefit of that experience yet. And yes, I do think your replies come off a bit...I'm going to restrain myself again, arrogant. And that's what bothers me; someone who has zippo experience in something should not be pontificating on how the world should be.
I really feel sorry for your future co-workers if you truly believe them to be so inferior to you. You will find that no one is going to ask you what your GPA is once you start working, and I have yet to see a pt say to his roommate, "Oh, my nurse has a BSN...well my nurse is better than yours, nonny nonny boo boo."
There's no differentiation in NCLEX, BTW. And with nurses in such shortage, do you really want to start demoting/demoralizing those of us who are going to have to help you become a skilled nurse?
Emerald, you are just begging for every ounce of Irish temper I have, but I will try to give you a restrained, reasonable answer.
There is no doubt that BSN programs are lacking when compared to diploma/ADN programs when it somes to clinical. What good is it to say, "I understand the theory of giving insulin, but I've never done it"...fat help to the diabetic pt. (and yes, this is a true life example).
When you beat that drum of "BSN is best", it is like you are implying that there is nothing to be learned from nurses who have other educational backgrounds. Heck, I've learned things from our ED aide, and I'm not ashamed to admit it.
All I can say is, those of us who have actually been nurses for years have seen how little difference there is when it comes to hands on nursing and BSN vs diploma/ADN. You do not have the benefit of that experience yet. And yes, I do think your replies come off a bit...I'm going to restrain myself again, arrogant. And that's what bothers me; someone who has zippo experience in something should not be pontificating on how the world should be.
I really feel sorry for your future co-workers if you truly believe them to be so inferior to you. You will find that no one is going to ask you what your GPA is once you start working, and I have yet to see a pt say to his roommate, "Oh, my nurse has a BSN...well my nurse is better than yours, noony noony boo boo."
There's no differentiation in NCLEX, BTW. And with nurses in such shortage, do you really want to start demoting/demoralizing those of us who are going to have to help you become a skilled nurse?
YOU MEAN SHE"S NOT EVEN A NURSE YET!!!!????.....oh puleeeezz!
No, her eruite commentaries are based on her experiences as a STUDENT NURSE!!!!! Like I said, no experience to give her the background to speak with such authority.
Leah, I guess you and I will just have to ride off in the sunset, now...this town ain't big enough (oh, wait, I'm afraid of horses...we'll have to drive off into the sunset).
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shrinkyrn
58 Posts
Old diploma nurse here. took classes toward BSN--then I looked at the pay difference and said FOR WHAT??? Have had 2 separate management positions (with my diploma)-- Took a management class--did better than the BSN variety---You are either a leader or you are not.--- I have a well rounded education, as I have studied many different things over time--remember I said I was "old diploma nurse". It never ceases to amaze me how uneducated the "educated" have appeared to be at times. They may have BSN's but many I've encountered are more concerned with their hair, nails and make-up than in what is being presented to them in report!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND I have worked with LPN's who have more on the ball as far as patient assessment skills than the BSN's I've seen on the whole over time. Perhaps it's an age thing but.............I don't see where a BSN makes a better nurse-------------SORRY!!!!!!!!!!!I know I'm asking for trouble with that:devil: