Are managers allowed to give ultimatums?

Nurses General Nursing

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TONIGHT WE HAD A MANDATORY MEETING. EVERYBODY WAS IN ATTENDANCE AND MY MANAGER TOLD US THAT SHE MADE UP A 100 QUESTION TEST THAT WE HAVE TO PASS WITH MISSING 10 OR LESS. IF WE MISS MORE THAN 10 WE ARE TERMINATED?????? IS THAT EVEN LEGAL? SHE HAD PEOPLE IN AN UPROAR! SHOULD I JUST GO ALONG WITH IT AND TAKE THIS TEST? OR SAY SOMETHING TO SOMEBODY AT HR??? :confused:

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That is totally nuts! I don't know the legallities of it but it doesn't sound ethical at all! I have heard of exams to get a job but not an exam to not be fired. Yes I would talk to HR right away. Even if it is an at-will state, this is not right at all. In case you do have to/decide to take it, make a copy of the exam before and after you take it with it "graded". Heck take photos with your cell of it if you can't get to a copy machine! Document the heck out of the situation so you can call your state labor board w/ evidence if you or someone else is terminated because of it.

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Specializes in ICU/CCU/Oncology/CSU/Managed Care/ Case Management.

What kind of test is it?? Is it only your unit that is required to take it?? Did anyone ask why??? I don't think a nurse can be terminated if she is asked to pass a 100 question test on short notice. :uhoh3:

Are there high incidences of med errors on your unit?? Even if there were It would be appropriate to be given ample teaching about whatever the problems at hand are--then do reinforcement teaching and if the problems still arise discuss this test and the ramifications along with it...

But just to tell you to do or die type of thing...no that doesn't sit well with me. :mad:

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If you are working in an "at-will" employment state then the management can fire you for any reason under the sun.

I give evaluations in the form of written exams on a regular basis to my employees but I do not terminate poor performers; rather I spend time training them on issues where they are flawed.

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Wow, I wouldn't hesitate to ask for the references and/or bibliography for the "test". I have seen managers make some very bizarre tests that are actually an indication of their incompetence.

Managers can do whatever they want until they get canned.

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Specializes in LTC, Acute Care.

Whatever you do, keep copies of everything. Your situation sounds screwy, and you never know when you will have to cover your butt.

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Wow, that doesn't even seem legal! Do you guys have a union? If so, run to them. If not I suggest the nurses at your place of employment start contacting people ASAP to start one to stop this from happening again. Nursing should be about constantly updating your knowledge and furthering your education out of love for your job, not fear of losing it.

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While it sounds like a really dumb approach on this manager's part, why would it be illegal?

The manager decides that in order to work within a given department, nurses need a certain competency level. He/she give a test to ensure all nurses meet this level. We all have tests, of various sorts in order to maintain our jobs.

If you have a contract or agreement prohibiting this, that's another story.

Many legal things are stupid. This sounds like one of them

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Yes it is a 100 question test about different systems we use and specimens and all kinds of stuff. The worst part is that only a few of us know all of the systems. The rest of the people are only weeks into working with us so they have no clue. We have 1 week to study for this test. The meeting was tonight and when she told all of us every body started arguing with her. We even had a few ladies walk out upset. The bottom of the letter she gave us states that if we miss 5 or less we pass. 10 or less we retake the test and 10 or more we need to consider that our 2 wks notice and start lookiing for a new job!!!!! I am going to hr tomorrow.

Sample question that will be on this test....

What is the recommended order of blood draws?

A. Blue, red,purple,grey,greeen , blood cultures

b.blood cultures,purple,green, red,grey , blue

c.blood cultures,blue, red, green, purple, grey

i have no doubt that i can pass but i feel like she is compromising our jobs????

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Specializes in Gerontology, nursing education.
That is totally nuts! I don't know the legallities of it but it doesn't sound ethical at all! I have heard of exams to get a job but not an exam to not be fired. Yes I would talk to HR right away. Even if it is an at-will state, this is not right at all. In case you do have to/decide to take it, make a copy of the exam before and after you take it with it "graded". Heck take photos with your cell of it if you can't get to a copy machine! Document the heck out of the situation so you can call your state labor board w/ evidence if you or someone else is terminated because of it.

I agree that you should talk to HR about this---and document EVERYTHING that is said at these meetings---but respectfully disagree with the advice to copy the exam. If your manager is insisting on everyone taking a "test" and threatening you with termination if you fail, you will most certainly be fired for "cheating" on the exam, even if your only intent is to show HR the exam before and after you take it. And if your manager is kooky enough to come up with a plan like this, she will definitely blame anyone who might be copying the exam for their records of trying to cheat.

Realistically, I can understand a competence exam or even a skills test-out for nurses new to the unit----or to everyone on a regular basis. I can understand needing to pass a test for work with a certain percentage and, if that isn't achieved, to require the staff member to do a little more continuing education or re-do a self-learning module. But that's part of a teaching-learning experience. This is just intimidation by a micro-manager who has no idea how to motivate or educate her staff.

BTW, so what's going to happen if everyone on this manager's unit fails the exam? Is she going to fire EVERYBODY? (And, um, what's her level of clinical competence? Could she pass a similar test if it was required?)

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Specializes in Operating Room Nursing.

Quite frankly after the day I've had working with incompetent nurses who will never 'get it' as they lack common sense I would like a similar ultimatum at my work.

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The bottom of the letter she gave us states that if we miss 5 or less we pass. 10 or less we retake the test and 10 or more we need to consider that our 2 wks notice and start lookiing for a new job!!!!! I am going to hr tomorrow.

I would definitely alert HR. They need to be made aware of the situation. I'm also curious to see if this is being done hospital wide or only by this one manager.

Also, she can't claim that failing in essence means you have resigned. That's false and completely out of line. That is the part that could really get her into trouble. A call to the Dept of Labor if HR doesn't work this all out would be my next move.

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