FREE Colleges?! & How it affects Nursing

KatieMI, BSN, MSN, RN · Jul 26, 2016

In addition to the above:

Federal moneys are kinda not free for all, although it might look like it. The "free" (because they will be still payed, ultimately, by you and me, although indirectly) colleges will be regulated from A to Z by goverment. That means, first, that number of the available spots will not be increased - indeed, in can be cut down. That, in turn, will mean that competitiveness will increase, not decrease. Second, it will mean that colleges will have to stop buying expensive toys like million-dollars sim labs. That, in turn, means that more training will have to be moved to bedside. Counting that problems with clinical placement exist even now, it won't mean a whole lot of places for new students, and so not an avalanche of new grads.

If (and it is a huge "if") that happens, then probably community colleges become "free" (i.e. paid by taxes) and there will be a few similarly "free" BSN programs in the country, admitting strictly by internal merits. There will appear a small wave of very expensive, very fancy private programs which will advertize their sim labs and abroad studies but, as their students promptly fail NCLEX, their numbers will go down till only ones which provide same level of education with nice ribbon attached stay in business. Overall, nothing will change much unless someone in D.C. envisions a real silly thing like bringing back to life the long-talked plan to make everyone BSN by default. Then it look like something worth worriying about.

P.S. I just cannot get why one has to be so bothered by the idea. As it is told in my country, to do so is like selling the skin of a bear which is still alive and well deep in forest.

**NICU Guy, BSN, RN** · Jul 26, 2016

College should be accessible to everyone.

I disagree with that. There are plenty of kids who would use free college for a year of partying. When they flunk out after a semester or year, those taxpayer dollars have been wasted. There should be more incentive to steer people into the trades. There is a serious shortage of people going into the trades instead the university machine must be fed, so the government is pushing for college instead of the trade schools.

elkpark · Jul 26, 2016

Please explain what you mean by this? I dont see the reasoning why we think nursing schools have a limited capacity and what exact factors are involved in that limitation. Thank you

Nursing schools do have a limited capacity. Nursing schools have to be approved by their state BON for a specific number of students they can enroll, and they are capped at that maximum number. They have to prove the to BON that they have sufficient qualified faculty, laboratory facilities, and appropriate clinical sites available to support the number of students they want to be able to enroll (there used to be requirements about the library facilities and resources available for the nursing program, but I would guess that has probably changed since the internet has become so prominent in education). Each state BON sets a cap on the number of students that can be supervised by a single instructor in clinical (i.e., maximum clinical group size). In order to increase their enrollment, schools have to document to the BON that they have sufficient faculty and clinical sites to accommodate a larger number of students, and that is a big deal (considering that most nursing programs are struggling to maintain sufficient faculty and clinical sites now, for the number of students for which they are currently approved). Nursing schools can't just decide next week that they want to enroll twice as many students next semester, and free tuition for public colleges and universities (not that I believe, again, that that's actually going to happen) would not change that.

Do you think that free college tuition would mean that anyone who wanted to, and as many people who wanted to, would be able to go to med school or law school? Why would this be any different?

meanmaryjean, DNP, RN · Jul 26, 2016

Kids, kids, kids.......nothing is 'free'. You know that, right OP?

FolksBtrippin, BSN, RN · Jul 26, 2016

Free college will come along with at least some forgiveness of student loan debt. So you won't be totally screwed.

Also, not all colleges will be free. State schools will be free, and they will be fiercely competitive. We will get the true cream of the crop in students. Seats will be limited. We will not have students rushing in. We will have students working harder.

For people who have lots of money but less discipline profit schools will still exist.

MunoRN, RN · Jul 26, 2016

So the new federal proposal for FREE higher education across the nation is a close reality. ....

There is and has been no federal proposal for free higher education across the nation, what are you referring to? There was a candidate who campaigned on making public college "free", and as a result lost, are you confusing that with a "federal proposal"?

LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN · Jul 26, 2016

Either way, someone is confusing "proposal" with "reality"...like Congress is actually hashing this out on C-Span.. :wacky:

LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN · Jul 27, 2016

I disagree with that. There are plenty of kids who would use free college for a year of partying. When they flunk out after a semester or year, those taxpayer dollars have been wasted. There should be more incentive to steer people into the trades. There is a serious shortage of people going into the trades instead the university machine must be fed, so the government is pushing for college instead of the trade schools.

I agree that there should be more incentive for trades; however in my area, it seems that trades have their fill on par with college; and there are many with trade roots-my diploma program was categorized as a trade school-transition beautifully into college, so I am grateful for a conversation that can include making college affordable to that trade member that goes on to receive a degree in engineering, architecture, business, or project management.

if we are to be more inclusive in making opportunities available to everyone, then absolutely we should include trade program partnerships and the educational system needs a reform. :yes:

Buyer beware, BSN · Jul 27, 2016

@elkpark,

I had no idea how raucous this subject matter had become. I know I am late to th party but elkpark you sound like someone I know, only with more imtrepid erudition and exacting articulation.

Before the state legislatures turned their backs on higher education there was no need for your average nursing student to look at the cost of education as tantamount to taking out a mortgage on a home sweet home.

Yes friends, there was a time when federal and state money for nursing education was plentiful. It's all a question of priorities. Unfortunately those priorities have been undermined by the flood of money in the form of federal student loans to sub-par for-profit loan mills.

The money is there, it's just a question of how we want to spend our own taxpayer dollars. The money has always been ours. And a vital service to this country and humanity we provide lest we too soon forget.

Buyer beware, BSN · Jul 28, 2016

I disagree with that. There are plenty of kids who would use free college for a year of partying. When they flunk out after a semester or year, those taxpayer dollars have been wasted. There should be more incentive to steer people into the trades. There is a serious shortage of people going into the trades instead the university machine must be fed, so the government is pushing for college instead of the trade schools.

I'll give you that. Quite possibly some students would spend a year partying and flunk out. But that has always been the case and since we can't be certain which students will, is it wise to hold all suspect and say no one should be allowed to make a mistake in life and then take away everyone's chance rich or poor to get a shot at proving their academic worth? The way it stands now billions of taxpayer's dollars, yours and mine, are being wasted on schools in the form of taxpayer backed Federal Tttle IV and Pell Grant loans mis-administered by the Department of Education. Most of this money is doled out to students with little government oversight. As a result, you had the birth of for-profit education. For-profit schools receive upwards of 90% of their receivable tuition from these loans. As a result of this lack of oversight the for-profits have seen these DoEd loans as a veritable cah-cow to exploit without having to show anyone that they are effective in producing a credible retention and graduation rate. The end result is that most students leave school after year one and don't graduate. So in effect to graduate but one person from one of these schools potentially costs the the taxpayers hundreds of thousands per student for the few that do make it through. There has got to be a more exacting system in place that has quality metrics we can all agree upon. Right now education in this country is a greedy money grab just like the economic meltdown several years back with no one held accountable. Except the hapless student who will have a loan balance that will follow them a lifetime.

jena5111, ASN, RN · Jul 28, 2016

Nursing school seats are limited to the number of clinical placements that are available.

Nursing school seats are also limited by the number of QUALIFIED nursing faculty willing to assume the immense responsibilities of teaching while potentially earning less money than nurses in other settings.

Buyer beware, BSN · Jul 28, 2016

Nursing school seats are also limited by the number of QUALIFIED nursing faculty willinBBCg to assume the immense responsibilities of teaching while potentially earning less money than nurses in other settings.

Yes, indeed. I glad to see that you upper cased the word "quality" as there are too many DNPs and Ph.Ds who are not bad as instructors who find themselves fronting for ill-fated experiments in failure when employed as adjucts for the for-profit loan scam colleges such as South University and University of Phoenix.

Unfortunately they are part of the problem and could do so much better working for educational entities that understood that ethical behavior and education are not mutually exclusive concepts.