Feeling Forced to Stay Late?

mrsboots87 · Jan 3, 2017

I also participated in that post and for the most part, the people staying over aren't doing so by choice and don't feel it's their job either. But if your relief doesn't show up, it's patient abandonment to just leave without reporting off. If a supervisor or other nurse does not take report on your patients, then you can throw your license in the garbage if you leave.

**canoehead, BSN, RN** · Jan 3, 2017

Not true, Mrs Boots. You need to notify your supervisor that your coverage did not arrive as scheduled, and that you need to leave. You need to give them an opportunity to find coverage, but you are free to leave once doing so. A representative from our nursing board once said two hours was ample notice. It is the facility's responsibility to staff the unit, not yours.

I also asked about leaving an ER unstaffed if my coverage didn't show. The same rules applied. Remember you wont lose your license, but the facility may fire you for not abiding by their rules

FutureNurseInfo · Jan 3, 2017

I am a pre-nursing student trying to do anything it takes to become a nurse. I am so glad such threads (and others) exist. Threads like these allow potential nurse wannabees to see the many facets of the nursing profession.

Davey Do · Jan 3, 2017

I wonder if mrsboots isn't referring to deserting the patients, canoehead? That's a pretty hefty case of negligence.

I would not even as much leave the unit without a replacement RN, and that is administration's responsibility to staff the units. However, there are many cases where administrators do not own up to their responsibility.

If push came to shove, I would acquiesce and stay if my replacement didn't show, for the safety and well-being of the patients and my license.

I have deserted my post once while working in LTC.

The DON came in on a midnight shift to deal with a grievance a CNA had brought against me for sending her home a previous shift. The CNA refused to perform her assigned duties, so I said she should just go home. The DON said that she couldn't support me on my decision and I said, "If you can't support a decision I made in good faith, then I can't work here" and left the DON in charge of that shift.

The LTC ended up closing down some time after that and is now dust in the wind.

Jules A, MSN · Jan 3, 2017

I have never felt this way and have pretty much done it only when mandated a couple or 3 times per year.
I don't believe it's my duty to do staffing and I pretty much have worked OT or come in extra only when I want to.
The purpose of saying this is to just observe that so many of you seem to feel it's your responsibility to cover call-off's, but it is really the facility's fault to have adequate staff - unless it's a natural disaster or huge accident with lots of casualties and sick patients that couldn't really be foreseen or totally planned for. But routine daily staffing? It's just not the staff nurse's problem.

I'm far from a Pollyanna who is willing to be taken advantage of by my employs but I always tried to help out for unexpected sick calls etc when I could, for OT of course. To me it is part of being a team player and my team is the most important part of my job. As much as I'd like to blame everything on the flimsy administration I don't see how an unexpected staffing shortage is their fault or how they should be expected to pull a RN out of the sky in a few hours notice. Its not so much about helping them as it is about helping my team and providing good patient care so I do feel obligated to at least consider it.

LovingLife123 · Jan 3, 2017

You have to hand report off to somebody. I've had 3-4 occasions the past 6 months alone where my relief has overslept or just plain not shown up. My charge has always been good about getting relief in, but I've had to wait until somebody shows up. You can't just walk away.

It truly sucks as a night shifter. It disrupts the whole process for me anyway, to try and wind down to get home to sleep. But I also understand these things happen. I find it often happens with agency. There always seems to be some type of miscommunication going on. Whether it's on my facility's end or the agency side, there always seems to be an issue.

Yes, it bothers me, but I can't walk out on my patients and as long as I'm being paid and it's not an every day occurrence, I'm ok with it. Never once have I had to stay longer than 2 hours.

morte, LPN, LVN · Jan 3, 2017

having been an agency nurse for many years, though not currently, if you are having a problem, call them when you get in to confirm the shift. and remind them there have been issues, they do not want to lose the contract. also, i caught one facility leaving me on the schedule after they had been informed i would not be in the next night...-----------------------------------------

LovingLife123 · Jan 3, 2017

having been an agency nurse for many years, though not currently, if you are having a problem, call them when you get in to confirm the shift. and remind them there have been issues, they do not want to lose the contract. also, i caught one facility leaving me on the schedule after they had been informed i would not be in the next night...-----------------------------------------

I'm not a charge so I have nothing to do with it. I just know for me personally most if the time it's an agency nurse. Not that it's that nurse's fault, there always seems to be a miscommunication somewhere. What end it's on, I never know. I just know there's an issue. They always find coverage for me. I just end up there a couple extra hours.

Kooky Korky, BSN, RN · Jan 3, 2017

I'm far from a Pollyanna who is willing to be taken advantage of by my employs but I always tried to help out for unexpected sick calls etc when I could, for OT of course. To me it is part of being a team player and my team is the most important part of my job. As much as I'd like to blame everything on the flimsy administration I don't see how an unexpected staffing shortage is their fault or how they should be expected to pull a RN out of the sky in a few hours notice. Its not so much about helping them as it is about helping my team and providing good patient care so I do feel obligated to at least consider it.

This is exactly the "new" concept I am referring to.

First, the shortage isn't really unexpected. Bosses, staffing coordinators expect someone or more than one person depending on the size of your staff to call off just about every shift. That's why they have Float Pools and why they have contracts with staffing agencies. Using an agency can cost a lot of money, more apparently than begging, pleading, or even bluffing and ordering your own staff to stay.

They count on you feeling obligated to be a good team member. If that's OK with you, if you don't have kids or other obligations or don't need to just be done with your work day, great. But ask yourself - are the people you report to, the ones who hire and fire, even trying to find relief other than by telling the staff who are already on duty that they have to stay? Are they staying? The bosses I mean. Ever?

Does your facility have a written policy about Mandatory Overtime? Or a policy about how absences are to be addressed? Does it say that nurses on duty are required to be mandated? How often? Some places will mandate you day after day routinely if you let them. They threaten termination but they don't terminate everyone who refuses to be mandated. After I realized that, I still let myself be mandated if I didn't mind. If I did mind, I didn't stay. Or I worked a deal to be off the next time I was scheduled to work in exchange for staying when they desperately needed another pair of hands. Call me a non-team player, but I refused to let myself be worked to a nub or made a fool of.

I actually lose money if I work too many hours. Why should I do that? I already pretty much always donate my lunch breaks just about daily.

If your car breaks down, you are expected to pull another ride out of the sky. Fine (taxi, bus, friend, maybe you have a 2nd car).

If your babysitter calls off, you are expected to pull another sitter out of the sky. Reasonably OK. If you are fortunate enough to have an easy alternative or even a not so easy one but one that is still available, fine.

How often, though, are you required to have a sitter available for other than your scheduled shift? This is not really reasonable. Some people do have fairly easy back-up sitters, but a lot try to do it just with the latchkey situation or maybe a spouse sharing the child care. And kids do need a certain amount of time and attention.

Suppose your relief is really sick and needs a week off or needs long-term funeral leave or has some serious crisis that precludes her from getting to work for a month. Are you to work doubles til he or she gets back?

Years ago, my State Board told me that it is not abandonment to leave at the end of my shift. They said to write out Report or tape it, count the narcotics, and tell my boss I was leaving when I handed her the keys. Yes, there was weeping and gnashing of teeth by my boss, and I wasn't so popular there. Too bad. It is not my job to fill holes in the schedule. Certainly not each and every time. It is never my responsibility. Yes, I do it from time to time but it's because it's good for me, not some imaginary law about abandonment, great pay, or "the team".

LovingLife123 · Jan 3, 2017

This is exactly the "new" concept I am referring to.
First, the shortage isn't really unexpected. Bosses, staffing coordinators expect someone or more than one person depending on the size of your staff to call off just about every shift. That's why they have Float Pools and why they have contracts with staffing agencies. Using an agency can cost a lot of money, more apparently than begging, pleading, or even bluffing and ordering your own staff to stay.
They count on you feeling obligated to be a good team member. If that's OK with you, if you don't have kids or other obligations or don't need to just be done with your work day, great. But ask yourself - are the people you report to, the ones who hire and fire, even trying to find relief other than by telling the staff who are already on duty that they have to stay? Are they staying? The bosses I mean. Ever?
Does your facility have a written policy about Mandatory Overtime? Or a policy about how absences are to be addressed? Does it say that nurses on duty are required to be mandated? How often? Some places will mandate you day after day routinely if you let them. They threaten termination but they don't terminate everyone who refuses to be mandated. After I realized that, I still let myself be mandated if I didn't mind. If I did mind, I didn't stay. Or I worked a deal to be off the next time I was scheduled to work in exchange for staying when they desperately needed another pair of hands. Call me a non-team player, but I refused to let myself be worked to a nub or made a fool of.
I actually lose money if I work too many hours. Why should I do that? I already pretty much always donate my lunch breaks just about daily.
If your car breaks down, you are expected to pull another ride out of the sky. Fine (taxi, bus, friend, maybe you have a 2nd car).
If your babysitter calls off, you are expected to pull another sitter out of the sky. Reasonably OK. If you are fortunate enough to have an easy alternative or even a not so easy one but one that is still available, fine.
How often, though, are you required to have a sitter available for other than your scheduled shift? This is not really reasonable. Some people do have fairly easy back-up sitters, but a lot try to do it just with the latchkey situation or maybe a spouse sharing the child care. And kids do need a certain amount of time and attention.
Suppose your relief is really sick and needs a week off or needs long-term funeral leave or has some serious crisis that precludes her from getting to work for a month. Are you to work doubles til he or she gets back?
Years ago, my State Board told me that it is not abandonment to leave at the end of my shift. They said to write out Report or tape it, count the narcotics, and tell my boss I was leaving when I handed her the keys. Yes, there was weeping and gnashing of teeth by my boss, and I wasn't so popular there. Too bad. It is not my job to fill holes in the schedule. Certainly not each and every time. It is never my responsibility. Yes, I do it from time to time but it's because it's good for me, not some imaginary law about abandonment, great pay, or "the team".

Why do you give them your lunch break? Do you clock out while working? That's extremely dangerous. Never do that. You would be screwed if you got hurt while clocked out.

There's nothing wrong with being a team player. Nursing is a team sport. You and your coworkers need to rely on each other for the unit to run as a well oiled machine. If your coworkers are constantly helping out and you constantly cut out, that's a bad thing. People won't trust you.

I feel my employer is good to me. They are good to me by providing me with much better benefits and my management has always listened to me and tried to accommodate any issue I have had. Therefore, I don't mind helping out. But I don't do it for free.

Also realize each state BON has different rules on what they consider patient abandonment. I hope you have seen in writing what you were told. Always hav it in writing.

AliNajaCat · Jan 3, 2017

It is a fallacy that you can't leave unless your relief is there. You can leave if you give report to a supervisor or DON. Prepare for the idea that they might not want to accept it by giving it in writing and having a witness, if necessary, to your giving it.

There are many, many precedents supporting nurses who refuse to be mandated (exception: VA hospitals) when there is a longstanding pattern of inadequate staffing, i.e., not a bona fide emergency, disaster, etc. If it's common it's not an emergency, and the facility is responsible for staffing, not the staff nurses.