Feeling Forced to Stay Late?

[Kooky Korky]

I was re-reading a shift from last May about calling off for lack of sleep and was just amazed by how many posters feel obligated to work late when their relief nurse calls off.

I have never felt this way and have pretty much done it only when mandated a couple or 3 times per year.

I don't believe it's my duty to do staffing and I pretty much have worked OT or come in extra only when I want to.

The purpose of saying this is to just observe that so many of you seem to feel it's your responsibility to cover call-off's, but it is really the facility's fault to have adequate staff - unless it's a natural disaster or huge accident with lots of casualties and sick patients that couldn't really be foreseen or totally planned for. But routine daily staffing? It's just not the staff nurse's problem.

[NotYourMamasRN]

When I worked in LTC 95% of the time, my relief was late. I am not talking about a mere 5 minutes either. I told the nursing supervisor they can either enforce their tardiness and absence policy or relieve me on the floor. So they relieved me on the floor and continued to allow a lackluster sense of professionalism in the facility. Things like this never flew in any hospital I worked in, except for one with one staff member.

[Kooky Korky, BSN, RN]

Why do you give them your lunch break? Do you clock out while working? That's extremely dangerous. Never do that. You would be screwed if you got hurt while clocked out.

There's nothing wrong with being a team player. Nursing is a team sport. You and your coworkers need to rely on each other for the unit to run as a well oiled machine. If your coworkers are constantly helping out and you constantly cut out, that's a bad thing. People won't trust you.

I feel my employer is good to me. They are good to me by providing me with much better benefits and my management has always listened to me and tried to accommodate any issue I have had. Therefore, I don't mind helping out. But I don't do it for free.

Also realize each state BON has different rules on what they consider patient abandonment. I hope you have seen in writing what you were told. Always hav it in writing.

No I don't clock out. It's just aalmost always too busy for me to take a lunch. And wolfing down a piece of fruit or something while standing at the med cart does NOT count as lunch.

I guess if I'd been able to see, over the years, that bosses genuinely appreciated me and my coworkers, if they didn't hassle us when we request 6 months in advance that we need a certain day off for a once in a lifetime event - a wedding, a graduation - and remind them q month when the schedule is being made but then you don't get the day off - well, why should I help them when they don't help me? Yes, I am happy to do my share but it has to be mutual. And they have to respect me. I don't perceive respect when they lie to me, bully me, threaten me, when they don't care about my kids' needs or mine.

Yes, i have had good bosses, people who at least didn't hassle me if I had to call off sick or had a true car emergency. For those I volunteered to stay over.

I agree get stuff in writing and be a team player.

Suppose your car breaks down on your way to work. You arrive about 30 minutes late. They dock you the 1/2 hour and won't let you use any of the many hours you have on the books to cover the 1/2 hour because you didn't get permission in advance to be late. I kid you not.

You did call as soon as you were safely pulled off onto the shoulder of the road, so work knew you were running late and why. You haven't been late or called off in about 3 years, you volunteer to work Christmas, you do your work correctly and timely. You know for a fact that other nurses are not doing all the paperwork because you see their unfinished paperwork in the file cabinet . You willingly and graciously float wherever and whenever they pull you, you orient new nurses, who love you and only want to train with you, but you failed to get permission to be late for an unforeseen true emergency. When you appealed the idiot boss' decision and won the appeal, you were successfully targeted for extermination and were fired. Lies and falsification were used abundantly, gossip was considered true with no proof whatsoever. You might actually land on your feet and find yourself in a much better situation over all as I did, but stuff like that has a way of making you take stock of all that rhetoric about teamwork.

Maybe someone stronger than I could fully forgive and forget, but I have seen this happen too many times. Good people were maltreated just because they had the gall to question authority and stand up for themselves. I guess I'm just weary of it.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

Not true, Mrs Boots. You need to notify your supervisor that your coverage did not arrive as scheduled, and that you need to leave. You need to give them an opportunity to find coverage, but you are free to leave once doing so. A representative from our nursing board once said two hours was ample notice. It is the facility's responsibility to staff the unit, not yours.

I also asked about leaving an ER unstaffed if my coverage didn't show. The same rules applied. Remember you wont lose your license, but the facility may fire you for not abiding by their rules

Perhaps that is true in your state. Perhaps the previous poster was correct about the law in her state. I'd want to know for sure about MY state before I feel free to leave once I've notified the supervisor that there's no coverage for my patients.

[Kooky Korky, BSN, RN]

I wonder if mrsboots isn't referring to deserting the patients, canoehead? That's a pretty hefty case of negligence.

I would not even as much leave the unit without a replacement RN, and that is administration's responsibility to staff the units. However, there are many cases where administrators do not own up to their responsibility.

If push came to shove, I would acquiesce and stay if my replacement didn't show, for the safety and well-being of the patients and my license.

I have deserted my post once while working in LTC.

The DON came in on a midnight shift to deal with a grievance a CNA had brought against me for sending her home a previous shift. The CNA refused to perform her assigned duties, so I said she should just go home. The DON said that she couldn't support me on my decision and I said, "If you can't support a decision I made in good faith, then I can't work here" and left the DON in charge of that shift.

The LTC ended up closing down some time after that and is now dust in the wind.

Just curious - what did you want the CNA to do? Why did your boss say she couldn't support your decision to send her packing?

I told a CNA once that she was going to be sent home if she did not do what I asked her to do, which was help prevent a fall. She mouthed off very loudly and badly, went to the other RN, and finally acquiesced when told by that nurse to do as I asked. She wrote me up, the boss called me the next day about it, I went to see boss, and gave her my write-up of this aide. I would not have turned it in to the boss except that this aide gave boss one about me. I quoted her threatening to hurt the patient. That's the last I ever heard about me being in any trouble.

This CNA had been out of control for years. Just my nature, though, I was not able to tolerate it any more. She learned to step lightly with me. I was so glad we normally worked opposite shifts. I hate controversy, just want peace. When you are the only person who speaks up or tries to change a bad situation, there is usually hell to pay.

[Here.I.Stand, BSN, RN]

No I don't clock out. It's just aalmost always too busy for me to take a lunch. And wolfing down a piece of fruit or something while standing at the med cart does NOT count as lunch.

I agree with you on just about every part of this thread...but you really should be getting paid for those missed lunches. Do the math for a year's worth of missed lunches. If you are not getting paid for them, you are providing allllll those hours as free labor to your employer.

[RegularNurse]

Feeling forced and being forced are two completely different things.

As previous posters have mentioned, helping out during some extenuating circumstance is one thing, but when stuff like this becomes common place you just have to get a new job.

Remember, as a staff nurse without a union, you can't change systems.

[Kooky Korky, BSN, RN]

Feeling forced and being forced are two completely different things.

As previous posters have mentioned, helping out during some extenuating circumstance is one thing, but when stuff like this becomes common place you just have to get a new job.

Remember, as a staff nurse without a union, you can't change systems.

But we can't really build a retirement if we are always switching jobs. Yes, your 401K and IRA can go with you, but not a real pension - if you are fortunate enough to actually work for a firm that offers one.

Nor can we build seniority if we are jumping ship every time a big wave comes along.

Who do you think joins unions? Staff nurses. Unions don't just magically appear. People, ordinary people, make them happen. Ordinary people - you, I - lobby legislators and we do, indeed, make change. If you are always going to run away and never risk being a leader, well, that's just waiting for someone else to do the heavy lifting and get shot down while you coast in on their coattails. Blood, sweat, and tears make change, not people who just run away.

Sorry if that's harsh, but one of my biggest peeves is people who won't help make things better for themselves, people who let fear stand in the way, people who just run away, who don't see themselves as able to make any positive changes.

[RegularNurse]

But we can't really build a retirement if we are always switching jobs. Yes, your 401K and IRA can go with you, but not a real pension - if you are fortunate enough to actually work for a firm that offers one.

Nor can we build seniority if we are jumping ship every time a big wave comes along.

Who do you think joins unions? Staff nurses. Unions don't just magically appear. People, ordinary people, make them happen. Ordinary people - you, I - lobby legislators and we do, indeed, make change. If you are always going to run away and never risk being a leader, well, that's just waiting for someone else to do the heavy lifting and get shot down while you coast in on their coattails. Blood, sweat, and tears make change, not people who just run away.

Sorry if that's harsh, but one of my biggest peeves is people who won't help make things better for themselves, people who let fear stand in the way, people who just run away, who don't see themselves as able to make any positive changes.

I appreciate your position, but I speak with my feet. I understand that everyone has a different situation though.

[canoehead, BSN, RN]

Sick calls are not unexpected, they are a part of doing business and administration needs to have a plan. Not the nurse - the administration. It's easy for admin to put blame on individual nurses for abandonment, and "the poor helpless patient" but the nurse is obligated for just the scheduled shift. We shouldn't be so willing to cast blame on each other.

If you're running a circus, the trapeze artists don't have any obligation to sub for the clowns! They could, to be nice, but it's the company's obligation to get all the performers they need. How many shows would it take before either the trapeze artists stopped doing double work, or the company figured out how much cheaper they could run the place if they got them to wrangle the elephants, and tame the lions too.

Don't drink the Kool Aid! Helping beyond your shift is NOT an obligation.

[dream'n, BSN, RN]

I was mandated so much in my early career at a LTC, that it's a make it or break it issue with me now. I haven't been mandated in probably 20 years, if it happned I'd stay over, but only due to my license. I would seriously hold it against my employer though and give my notice as soon as I could secure another job. Recently they hired a RN that appeared less than reliable to the shift following mine. When I asked my supervisor what she would do if that new nurse didn't show that night, she insinuated I'd have to stay (The nurse did show up). Needless to say, that didn't sit well with me and I immediately found a new job. I'm too old now and will not play the mandation game for any employer; they might stick me once, but then I'd be out.

[Kooky Korky, BSN, RN]

Sick calls are not unexpected, they are a part of doing business and administration needs to have a plan. Not the nurse - the administration. It's easy for admin to put blame on individual nurses for abandonment, and "the poor helpless patient" but the nurse is obligated for just the scheduled shift. We shouldn't be so willing to cast blame on each other.

If you're running a circus, the trapeze artists don't have any obligation to sub for the clowns! They could, to be nice, but it's the company's obligation to get all the performers they need. How many shows would it take before either the trapeze artists stopped doing double work, or the company figured out how much cheaper they could run the place if they got them to wrangle the elephants, and tame the lions too.

Don't drink the Kool Aid! Helping beyond your shift is NOT an obligation.

I wish I could LIKE this a million times.

[Kooky Korky, BSN, RN]

I appreciate your position, but I speak with my feet. I understand that everyone has a different situation though.

I say this with all understanding and even appreciation of your belief, but speaking with your feet makes you part of the problem. Nursing can never expect to advance without bravery and working together to effect change that is good for nurses other than just yourself.