Fact or Fiction? Masking and CO2 Dangers

[J.Adderton]

As the COVID-19 pandemic unfolds, health experts continue to urge the public to wear face masks for protection. Sound advice, right? Well.. if you spend any time on social media it’s likely you’ve read warnings about the dangers of wearing a mask for long periods of time. Specifically, the risk of carbon dioxide (CO2) becoming trapped under your mask, causing unsafe levels to build up in the body (hypercapnia). So, let’s take a closer look to see if wearing a mask can lead to someone passing out or worse.

A Possible Catalyst

One April incident added fuel to the “masking causing carbon dioxide poisoning” theory. On April 25, 2020, a New Jersey woman crashed her car into a power pole and was taken to a nearby hospital. The local police department posted to facebook that the woman had been wearing an N95 mask for several hours and passed out. The department believed wearing the N95 mask contributed to the crash by causing a buildup of carbon dioxide and resulting in the driver fainting.

The facebook post was shared thousands of times and received hundreds of comments. The story was also reported on major news outlets.

The Basics

Let’s first review the characteristics of protective masks as we look for the truth. There are two main types of masks used in healthcare, N95 respirators and surgical masks.

Surgical

These masks are fluid resistant, fit loosely and protect you from large droplets, splashes or sprays of body or hazardous fluids. They also protect others from your own respiratory and body secretions. However, there are limits to protection surgical masks provide, including:

• Does not provide reliable protection from small airborne particles
• Are not considered respiratory protection
• Leakage occurs around the edge of the mask when you inhale
• Designed for single use

N95 Respirators

The N95 respirator is tight-fitting and requires a fit test to make you have a good seal around the mask. It protects you against small particle aerosols and large droplets. In fact, it filters out at least 95% of small and large airborne particles. If properly fitted, minimal leakage occurs around the edges when you inhale. N95 masks also have limitations, including:

• Ideally, N95 masks should be discarded after each patient encounter
• Is ineffective if a good seal is not maintained
• Breathing can become difficult

The Verdict

A CDC representative told Reuters that CO2 will build up in face masks over time, however, the level of CO2 trapped is tolerable for most of us. Protective masks are designed to trap droplets, which are much larger than CO2 particles. Therefore, CO2 will escape through or around the edges of surgical, cloth and even N95 masks. If CO2 levels do rise high enough to cause symptoms, we would most likely remove the mask.

Healthcare workers, who wear masks for extended periods of time, could potentially experience symptoms of elevated CO2 levels (I.e. headaches and dizziness).

Caveat: Preexisting Conditions

People with respiratory conditions (such as COPD) that cause hypercapnia may experience breathing difficulties. Therefore, the CDC does not recommend face masks for anyone having breathing difficulties or other conditions that will increase the risk of hypercapnia.

Have you experienced any other “myths” or “truths” related to masking during the pandemic?

References

Driver in crash may have passed out from wearing N95 mask too long: Police

Killer COVID-19 Masks? The Truth About Trapped Carbon Dioxide

[Wuzzie]

Also, this post was intended to discuss the "dangers" of wearing a mask. There are many other threads discussing people's opinion about their efficacy in fighting Covid.

[malogna]

11 hours ago, londonflo said:

Actually it is not "why now". Those who choose to reject basic steps and science to protect themselves/children/grandparents or others have complained previously with the old " its my body" or it's another "power shift" will find that their objections have been heard before. Their method of oppositional defiance is not effectively clearing the virus from the US.. Nor was it effective in the past century..there were disruptions for those who felt "it was their duty to take a stand". Please take a seat and look at these: Your ancestors will have faced this before. Think about the realization the Spanish Flu or influenza epidemic of 1918 killed between 50 and 100 million people. And tell me "What you would do to help?"

Gosh darn, it may have helped the last time

Perhaps it is because we are online, but I don't really appreciate the condescending tone, as I was only trying to offer insight into "the other side." The way I see it, there are two main categories of issues at hand: medical and governmental, more so their role in this ordeal. I can hold 2 ideas in my head at once, such as, "there is a medical crisis going on, and I do not want the government to use it as an excuse to exercise control."

That's really the crux of my grievance. We live in a time where power is becoming more and more consolidated to fewer and fewer, so I think it is our duty to be a little cautious when everyone (particularly legislators) is on the same side. Take all the phony wars we have been a part of, where there was "bipartisan support" both in congress and media - where did that get us?

What would I do to help? I would look after my friends and family and tell them to do what they think is best.

These times are filled with moral and philosophical issues.

"All tyrannies rule through fraud and force, but once the fraud is exposed they must rely exclusively on force" - George Orwell

[rzyzzy]

On 7/9/2020 at 11:13 AM, malogna said:

Perhaps it is because we are online, but I don't really appreciate the condescending tone, as I was only trying to offer insight into "the other side." The way I see it, there are two main categories of issues at hand: medical and governmental, more so their role in this ordeal. I can hold 2 ideas in my head at once, such as, "there is a medical crisis going on, and I do not want the government to use it as an excuse to exercise control."

That's really the crux of my grievance. We live in a time where power is becoming more and more consolidated to fewer and fewer, so I think it is our duty to be a little cautious when everyone (particularly legislators) is on the same side. Take all the phony wars we have been a part of, where there was "bipartisan support" both in congress and media - where did that get us?

What would I do to help? I would look after my friends and family and tell them to do what they think is best.

These times are filled with moral and philosophical issues.

"All tyrannies rule through fraud and force, but once the fraud is exposed they must rely exclusively on force" - George Orwell

Yeah, but no one is using “force” - you’re welcome to skip the mask, you’re just *not* welcome to skip the mask at Costco. If there are more than a handful of people who’ve actually gotten a ticket for refusing to wear a mask or leave a public establishment, I’ll eat my own shoe.

Cops don’t want to write tickets for it, some have openly said they won’t write tickets for it, and many governors have openly said no one is getting a ticket for it. So there’s no force being exerted here.

On the flip side, there have been quite a few anti-maskers threatening those who call them out.

I had to quit a job where “masks for everyone, all the time” became “masks for everyone, except the butt-heads who don’t wanna, even without a legit medical reason” - and this was inside a dialysis clinic - where everyone is compromised and the patients aren’t six feet apart. Later on, there was a government order requiring masks inside the facility, but that order came too late for me, and possibly for at least a couple patients who died of covid.

the “personal choice” argument goes hand in hand with the “its not that bad unless you’re compromised” argument- which infers that only those at high risk “need” to mask up.

That’s an insane argument simply because the compromised still need to buy gas and kitty litter and cheese, just like you - and there aren’t any “separate but equal” facilities for them.

[malogna]

On 7/9/2020 at 12:57 PM, rzyzzy said:

Yeah, but no one is using “force” - you’re welcome to skip the mask, you’re just *not* welcome to skip the mask at Costco. If there are more than a handful of people who’ve actually gotten a ticket for refusing to wear a mask or leave a public establishment, I’ll eat my own shoe.

cops don’t want to write tickets for it, some have openly said they won’t write tickets for it, and many governors have openly said no one is getting a ticket for it. So there’s no force being exerted here.

On the flip side, there have been quite a few anti-maskers threatening those who call them out.

I had to quit a job where “masks for everyone, all the time” became “masks for everyone, except the butt-heads who don’t wanna, even without a legit medical reason” - and this was inside a dialysis clinic - where everyone is compromised and the patients aren’t six feet apart. Later on, there was a government order requiring masks inside the facility, but that order came too late for me, and possibly for at least a couple patients who died of covid.

The “personal choice” argument goes hand in hand with the “its not that bad unless you’re compromised” argument- which infers that only those at high risk “need” to mask up.

That’s an insane argument simply because the compromised still need to buy gas and kitty litter and cheese, just like you - and there aren’t any “separate but equal” facilities for them.

Thank you for your response. I am a nursing student currently, and I am trying to navigate this very complex issue the best I can with the knowledge I have on hand.

There are plenty of examples of businesses that have been given citations for allowing people in their store without masks, in my small town alone, which was their choice. Erosion of rights takes time, with countless and subtle warning signs along the way. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

There are threatening people from ALL sides. However, the advocates for mask wearing undoubtedly have the most power and support (politicians, world leaders, corporations, celebrities, blue checkmarks, professors, etc.) So, standing up to them requires a considerable amount of effort, justified or not.

Why would the mega corporations and media promote closing of parks/beaches/churches but basically encourage protesting and rioting after hammering us about staying home/6 feet apart? Who is paying them to say those things? Who are their sponsors? Have they lied before about big issues, and were those held accountable?

Regardless of what happens, the people in power will never take responsibility for failure, and it will always be pinned on us.

Once again, I refer to the goalpost shifts and contradictions of narratives/guidelines from the surgeon general, Fauci, Birx, WHO, CDC, etc. all presenting with various conflicts of interest. What I mean is there is quite a lot of noise, and everyone should reserve the right to be skeptical of people and corporations who absolutely have never and will never hold the peoples' best interests in mind.

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled" - Mark Twain

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" - Aristotle

[rzyzzy]

On 7/9/2020 at 1:55 PM, malogna said:

Thank you for your response. I am a nursing student currently, and I am trying to navigate this very complex issue the best I can with the knowledge I have on hand.

There are plenty of examples of businesses that have been given citations for allowing people in their store without masks, in my small town alone, which was their choice. Erosion of rights takes time, with countless and subtle warning signs along the way. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

There are threatening people from ALL sides. However, the advocates for mask wearing undoubtedly have the most power and support (politicians, world leaders, corporations, celebrities, blue checkmarks, professors, etc.) So, standing up to them requires a considerable amount of effort, justified or not.

Why would the mega corporations and media promote closing of parks/beaches/churches but basically encourage protesting and rioting after hammering us about staying home/6 feet apart? Who is paying them to say those things? Who are their sponsors? Have they lied before about big issues, and were those held accountable?

Regardless of what happens, the people in power will never take responsibility for failure, and it will always be pinned on us.

Once again, I refer to the goalpost shifts and contradictions of narratives/guidelines from the surgeon general, Fauci, Birx, WHO, CDC, etc. all presenting with various conflicts of interest. What I mean is there is quite a lot of noise, and everyone should reserve the right to be skeptical of people and corporations who absolutely have never and will never hold the peoples' best interests in mind.

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled" - Mark Twain

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" - Aristotle

Alright, calling you out - if “countless” citations were written in your area, it made the news, post a link.

This “good people on both sides” attitude towards something that isn’t negotiable (science) isn’t helpful.

[Tenebrae, BSN, RN]

My biggest bugbear about wearing a mask is that it usually makes my glasses fog up

??

I still wear the jolly mask when I need to

[Queen Tiye, RN]

On 7/1/2020 at 5:37 PM, NurseBlaq said:

No, unless you're actively having an asthma attack or SOB in which case you should stop working out anyway until you feel better.

C02 is an issue, perhaps more so for some than others. Several times I’ve felt dizzy or faint. When I have bronchial flare-ups it’s hard to breathe with the mask on. In fact, I’m now convinced that not changing my masks frequently enough has caused me an upper respiratory infection. We are making the best of being required to wear masks for hours, but it is not healthy.

[42pines]

3 hours ago, Queen Tiye said:

C02 is an issue, perhaps more so for some than others. Several times I’ve felt dizzy or faint. When I have bronchial flare-ups it’s hard to breathe with the mask on. In fact, I’m now convinced that not changing my masks frequently enough has caused me an upper respiratory infection. We are making the best of being required to wear masks for hours, but it is not healthy.

CO2 is no issue whatsoever because of tidal volume. You breath about one liter per incoming breath. When you breath out you do not breath everything so much that your airways/bronchi and sinuses collapse. That residual air is higher in CO2, and you have done that from your very first breath and every breath that has followed all your life--think about it.

Look at a surgical/fabric mask and ask yourself, how much space really is behind there? The answer, a very tiny amount. Very tiny in relation to sinus/bronchi residual air volume. When you breath in the ~1 Liter incoming volume dilutes any CO2 instantly, were it an issue, the receptors would compensate and you'd breath, perhaps one extra breath every twenty breaths. A 5% increase in breathing rate is less than you incur walking up stairs. I have never heard of decreased O2 sat using any mask including an N95, N100 or elastomer mask which has more "space," behind it.

You're a nurse, find a O2 sat meter, put it on, breath calmly for 5 minutes, then put on your mask. Does O2 sat change? Does the last of the 5 minute breath rate change? For you the breath rate may change, if you suffer anxiety you may breath more, which may lead to a higher O2 sat rate. And that.....can lead to dizziness and faitness.

If you feel dizzy or faint you may be experiencing panic/anxiety. Claustrophobia does contradict wearing a respirator and likely a mask. Anxiety can be an issue for some, if for you, see a doc, and don't go/work where a mask is needed---simple.

You may be convinced that masks have caused an upper respiratory infection, but how? Strange bacteria/virus are created spontaneously? That's called an anecdotal determination, again--the issue you may be experiencing may well be anxiety, that can be a real problem.

Before I was a nurse I was a AHERA asbestos inspector; project monitor and contractor. I would routinely wear N100 masks for 8-11 hours per day along with my crew. No issues, no infections, and yes, we didn't like them, but not wearing them put us at risk of mesothelioma and we all took the need seriously.

The difference here is predominantly we were protecting ourselves. Today, the mask predominantly protects others and "may" be of some help protecting our self (unless you are using an N95 or better).

The bottom line is simple. Those who don't want to wear a mask for any reason seem to grasp, like a drowning person, for any reason not to wear one. Fine, don't wear one--but do me a favor and keep 25 feet or more away from me. Do that and I won't even try to comment.

[Rose_Queen, BSN, MSN, RN]

11 hours ago, Queen Tiye said:

C02 is an issue, perhaps more so for some than others.

If that were true, OR nurses, surgical technologists, and surgeons would be dropping like flies. However, we all manage to wear our masks and not suffer for it.

[Queen Tiye, RN]

rose_queen, what do you think might be causing some mask wearing nurses to feel dizzy? Perhaps some nurses who move around faster and longer may have a different experience than a nurse who moves around less. Rebreathing CO2 through surgical and N95 masks exists. How much CO2 is the question.

[Queen Tiye, RN]

10 hours ago, 42pines said:

CO2 is no issue whatsoever because of tidal volume. You breath about one liter per incoming breath. When you breath out you do not breath everything so much that your airways/bronchi and sinuses collapse. That residual air is higher in CO2, and you have done that from your very first breath and every breath that has followed all your life--think about it.

Look at a surgical/fabric mask and ask yourself, how much space really is behind there? The answer, a very tiny amount. Very tiny in relation to sinus/bronchi residual air volume. When you breath in the ~1 Liter incoming volume dilutes any CO2 instantly, were it an issue, the receptors would compensate and you'd breath, perhaps one extra breath every twenty breaths. A 5% increase in breathing rate is less than you incur walking up stairs. I have never heard of decreased O2 sat using any mask including an N95, N100 or elastomer mask which has more "space," behind it.

You're a nurse, find a O2 sat meter, put it on, breath calmly for 5 minutes, then put on your mask. Does O2 sat change? Does the last of the 5 minute breath rate change? For you the breath rate may change, if you suffer anxiety you may breath more, which may lead to a higher O2 sat rate. And that.....can lead to dizziness and faitness.

If you feel dizzy or faint you may be experiencing panic/anxiety. Claustrophobia does contradict wearing a respirator and likely a mask. Anxiety can be an issue for some, if for you, see a doc, and don't go/work where a mask is needed---simple.

You may be convinced that masks have caused an upper respiratory infection, but how? Strange bacteria/virus are created spontaneously? That's called an anecdotal determination, again--the issue you may be experiencing may well be anxiety, that can be a real problem.

Before I was a nurse I was a AHERA asbestos inspector; project monitor and contractor. I would routinely wear N100 masks for 8-11 hours per day along with my crew. No issues, no infections, and yes, we didn't like them, but not wearing them put us at risk of mesothelioma and we all took the need seriously.

The difference here is predominantly we were protecting ourselves. Today, the mask predominantly protects others and "may" be of some help protecting our self (unless you are using an N95 or better).

The bottom line is simple. Those who don't want to wear a mask for any reason seem to grasp, like a drowning person, for any reason not to wear one. Fine, don't wear one--but do me a favor and keep 25 feet or more away from me. Do that and I won't even try to comment.

I don’t suffer from anxiety and oftentimes it is difficult for me to breathe with my mask on, but you are essentially telling me: no you don’t have that issue and if you do it’s because you are suffering from anxiety. You are also a nurse and your tone and response to my comment are inappropriate and hostile. I wasn’t posing an argument about why we should wear masks. I wear my mask every shift and whenever I’m outdoors, but you posed yet another assumption and directed me to stay away from you. I won’t see your response because I’m blocking you.

[NurseBlaq]

4 hours ago, Queen Tiye said:

rose_queen, what do you think might be causing some mask wearing nurses to feel dizzy? Perhaps some nurses who move around faster and longer may have a different experience than a nurse who moves around less. Rebreathing CO2 through surgical and N95 masks exists. How much CO2 is the question.

Anxiety, undiagnosed COPD, asthma exacerbation, bronchitis, etc. There are many reasons but simply wearing a mask isn't it.