I’m sure I have an unpopular opinion but does anyone else feel like the mass push for facial coverings and masks has very little benefit? Think about it (I know this is immature, so forgive me) if a fart can go through underwear and a pair of jeans... can’t good ol’ Rona go through a piece of cotton? Not only that, the general public is not educated in how to wear PPE and are not wearing the masks or gloves correctly.
Frankly... mask and gloves provide them with a false sense of security.
As nurses, we are keenly of what’s clean or sterile so we can do a pretty good job navigating ourselves in public during this pandemic. However, not trying to be disrespectful or anything, watching the public on with their masks and gloves on is quite entertaining to say the least. I was in Whole Foods recently and you can see who’s a medical professional from a mile away as it’s obvious to see which hand they’ve designated as their “dirty hand” and how they hold they hand in resting position while grocery shopping! If I can smell my coffee through my mask as I pick up a new bag from the shelf and toss it into the cart, then Rona ain’t going to be fooled by my mask. I’m not willing to waste an N95 for grocery shopping. I just don’t see the need for a mask out in public unless you have a new or sudden change in cough or are immune compromised. We will always have rouge individuals who will defy advice and not wear a mask when sick, but I’m talking about the general public. I do see the benefit when you have a cough as it will stop the droplets from traveling further. But just breathing in and out can transfer this virus... I don’t know how a mask will provide protection from this. I live in a fairly wealthy area where almost EVERYONE is wearing a mask in public. For those who are not wearing a mask, is it because of a conscious decision, typically unrelated to financial reasons.
My case is: I don’t see the efficacy of surgical/homemade masks against coronavirus for healthy individuals.
We should be wearing a mask in places where we can't social distance. It hurts to see so many nurses downplaying how masks control infections during a pandemic.
What I have seen, more than simply dismissing them, has been questions about the effectiveness of cloth masks vs tested ones.
Especially since we know nurses have died after being told to wear a plain (but still laboratory tested and certified for their intended uses) surgical mask, even with a face shield, instead of an N95 even when they weren't necessarily doing an "aerosol generating procedure". If a tested, lab certified product is failing to protect nurses from this virus, many would wonder how in the heck a homemade product is going to help (especially after seeing questionable videos about no-sew masks).
But there are significant differences, too, between health care and retail.
One is that if the surgical mask isn't getting changed between patients, it's not being used "as intended". Not a nurse/tech's fault when they're only given one or two for an entire shift -- at all -- but if medical personnel had the ability to use PPE as intended by the manufacturer vs as allocated by their employers, we would see fewer HCW deaths.
The second is that HCWs are dealing with known cases, far closer of contact, and far more intimate contact in many cases, than retailers demanding masks be worn in addition to their "directional arrows down the aisle, six feet apart, squirt with sanitizer on entry" safety precautions that keep certain newspaper columnists from managing to buy a toaster (all politics aside, how does someone who can't deal with arrows down an aisle manage dealing with the DMV?).
But if HCWs already can't get adequate tested PPE, we don't need private citizens on the market buying medical-grade surgical masks -- either for their non-medical retail employees, or for themselves. So for businesses trying to reopen/patrons trying to comply with new rules, cloth masks will help lower health care worker deaths by conserving tested PPE and keeping it for the health care market, so maybe it CAN be used and then changed after patient contact vs just when outright soiled.
Plus, cloth masks are probably as effective as is needed in such settings where other precautions are also being taken -- yes, aerosols from a cough may still spread, but not as far. Droplets are gonna spew up into people's glasses/out their cheek/down their chin, not straight toward another customer (if they're maintaining distancing). Yes, cloth mask-wearing in public is a "for thee, not for me" situation when only one person is doing it. But that is still helpful.
What I have seen, more than simply dismissing them, has been questions about the effectiveness of cloth masks vs tested ones.
Especially since we know nurses have died after being told to wear a plain (but still laboratory tested and certified for their intended uses) surgical mask, even with a face shield, instead of an N95 even when they weren't necessarily doing an "aerosol generating procedure". If a tested, lab certified product is failing to protect nurses from this virus, many would wonder how in the heck a homemade product is going to help (especially after seeing questionable videos about no-sew masks).
But there are significant differences, too, between health care and retail.
One is that if the surgical mask isn't getting changed between patients, it's not being used "as intended". Not a nurse/tech's fault when they're only given one or two for an entire shift -- at all -- but if medical personnel had the ability to use PPE as intended by the manufacturer vs as allocated by their employers, we would see fewer HCW deaths.
The second is that HCWs are dealing with known cases, far closer of contact, and far more intimate contact in many cases, than retailers demanding masks be worn in addition to their "directional arrows down the aisle, six feet apart, squirt with sanitizer on entry" safety precautions that keep certain newspaper columnists from managing to buy a toaster (all politics aside, how does someone who can't deal with arrows down an aisle manage dealing with the DMV?).
But if HCWs already can't get adequate tested PPE, we don't need private citizens on the market buying medical-grade surgical masks -- either for their non-medical retail employees, or for themselves. So for businesses trying to reopen/patrons trying to comply with new rules, cloth masks will help lower health care worker deaths by conserving tested PPE and keeping it for the health care market, so maybe it CAN be used and then changed after patient contact vs just when outright soiled.
Plus, cloth masks are probably as effective as is needed in such settings where other precautions are also being taken -- yes, aerosols from a cough may still spread, but not as far. Droplets are gonna spew up into people's glasses/out their cheek/down their chin, not straight toward another customer (if they're maintaining distancing). Yes, cloth mask-wearing in public is a "for thee, not for me" situation when only one person is doing it. But that is still helpful.
Hi, I am still working my way through your message, but I see I should have been much clearer in my post. I am most definitely not talking about masks in the healthcare setting, but among the general public. Sorry for that confusion. I will just quickly add that in the HC setting (and really, anywhere) much depends on the so-called inoculum (the viral load one is exposed to - I'm not sure if I am using that word correctly or not), which is why PPE and open discussion of PPE is so vitally important at this time.
Hi, I am still working my way through your message, but I see I should have been much clearer in my post. I am most definitely not talking about masks in the healthcare setting, but among the general public. Sorry for that confusion. I will just quickly add that in the HC setting (and really, anywhere) much depends on the so-called inoculum (the viral load one is exposed to - I'm not sure if I am using that word correctly or not), which is why PPE and open discussion of PPE is so vitally important at this time.
I probably should have been clearer as well.
A few posts had dismissed cloth masks in public as ineffective (due to either poor design or quality, or poor usage) and suggested surgical/procedure masks would have at least been better for public use.
My response to that line of thought is sure, they would, if HCWs weren't dealing with crazy rationing protocols/likely will be needing to conserve medical-grade PPE for the foreseeable future as it is produced. And while the focus in production really should be on N95s (kinda went off on someone who said they were purchasing them for personal use on another forum, they weren't a HCW), the rationing is reducing the known effectiveness of even tested surgical masks, as they weren't tested for this kind of emergency use.
So even if cloth masks are later demonstrated to be ineffective by the retrospective studies that we all know will be done, when worn by the general public in public, they will at least conserve medical PPE for medical use.
Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.
I will try again to be clear. Surgeons do NOT wear a surgical mask to protect themselves. Surgical masks and cloth masks are worn to protect others from virus spread by the mask wearer, not the other way around.
Those infected with the virus that causes COVID-19 can transmit it to others when asymptomatic. When the masks are worn as a general habit, help prevent people who are unaware that they are sick from unwittingly transmitting the virus to others. Wearing a mask is not meant to be a replacement for social distancing, hand-washing and other efforts.
There has not been time for peer reviewed research regarding COVID-10, but SARS, MERS, seasonal influenza are transmitted much the same.
This study showed that masks help people limit spreading it when they exhale small droplets containing the virus. Masks led to a more than threefold reduction in how much virus people sprayed into the air: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3591312/
This isn’t a debate, it’s a conversation. Simple as that.
But why is it even a “conversation?” We have evidence that supports mask wearing in public. Our feelings and opinions don’t change that and as nurses, why are so many of us.....not looking to the evidence for best practices?
moriahcat
68 Posts
What I have seen, more than simply dismissing them, has been questions about the effectiveness of cloth masks vs tested ones.
Especially since we know nurses have died after being told to wear a plain (but still laboratory tested and certified for their intended uses) surgical mask, even with a face shield, instead of an N95 even when they weren't necessarily doing an "aerosol generating procedure". If a tested, lab certified product is failing to protect nurses from this virus, many would wonder how in the heck a homemade product is going to help (especially after seeing questionable videos about no-sew masks).
But there are significant differences, too, between health care and retail.
One is that if the surgical mask isn't getting changed between patients, it's not being used "as intended". Not a nurse/tech's fault when they're only given one or two for an entire shift -- at all -- but if medical personnel had the ability to use PPE as intended by the manufacturer vs as allocated by their employers, we would see fewer HCW deaths.
The second is that HCWs are dealing with known cases, far closer of contact, and far more intimate contact in many cases, than retailers demanding masks be worn in addition to their "directional arrows down the aisle, six feet apart, squirt with sanitizer on entry" safety precautions that keep certain newspaper columnists from managing to buy a toaster (all politics aside, how does someone who can't deal with arrows down an aisle manage dealing with the DMV?).
But if HCWs already can't get adequate tested PPE, we don't need private citizens on the market buying medical-grade surgical masks -- either for their non-medical retail employees, or for themselves. So for businesses trying to reopen/patrons trying to comply with new rules, cloth masks will help lower health care worker deaths by conserving tested PPE and keeping it for the health care market, so maybe it CAN be used and then changed after patient contact vs just when outright soiled.
Plus, cloth masks are probably as effective as is needed in such settings where other precautions are also being taken -- yes, aerosols from a cough may still spread, but not as far. Droplets are gonna spew up into people's glasses/out their cheek/down their chin, not straight toward another customer (if they're maintaining distancing). Yes, cloth mask-wearing in public is a "for thee, not for me" situation when only one person is doing it. But that is still helpful.