At my facility, some residents have tried to avoid care from employees who are African American as a matter of policy. Usually, they say, "I don't want a [unrepeatable] working with me!" When this happens, they get a looooong talk from management, who explains in no uncertain terms that they *will* be cared for by *whomever* happens to be assigned to them, and if this is unacceptable they are more than welcome to transfer to another facility.
At this same facility, I have some residents who say "I don't want a MAN working with me!" When this happens, the men get a looooong talk from management, who explains in no uncertain terms that residents have *rights* and we will need to juggle assignments and if this is unacceptable they are more than welcome to transfer to another facility.
I don't "get" why we don't tolerate the first form of discrimination but actively embrace the second. I've been told it isn't my problem (I'm female) and maybe I need some sensitivity training (patients' rights) or some Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (belief adjustment).
The traditional definition of discrimination says it can only take place against oppressed groups. It's only about what happens to people in the disempowered classes, like women. The traditional definition addresses groups.
The new definition involves "disparate treatment" or "disparate impact". This is intentionally treating an individual (like a male employee) less favorably than another individual (like a female employee) in the same circumstances. This definition addresses individuals.
In nursing practice, I'm seeing that a male nursing employee (CNA, in my case) is not allowed to work with the 97-pound person who has rights, and seems to end up with the 306 pound person who has C-diff. Looks like "disparate treatment" or "disparate impact" to me.
Is this ... ethical? I feel like I should be doing something, or saying something to somebody, hence this post.
Specializes in Med Surg, Ortho, Tele, ICU, Hospice.
racism != sexism.
Sure, it's a PITA to have to shuffle assignments. Sure, you'll feel like you don't have as many rights (ETA: you don't) if your pt takes one look at you and goes "uh-uh."
But saying "I'm not comfortable having you wash my thing because you're a man" is a far cry from saying "I don't want you to wash me because I think you're antiquated farm equipment." One of these things delineates a personal limit to your comfort zone - the other is the source of most of what's wrong with the world.
The thing is - it's not you. It's them. Male or female. It's what they're comfortable with. You have thrown out many of your own prejudices (against poop and such) to work in nursing, and expect the same of your patients. Meanwhile, they retain their prejudices (against men and such) and expect the same of you. Same problem (projection), opposite sides.
Next time someone refuses you based on gender, tell 'em you'd be glad to ask the female nurse to help 'em out - but ask, if they're comfortable sharing, why. Maybe you can educate them, there's some small chance you can make it easier for the next round of people. By the same token, maybe you can't, and at least you know they're too far gone to talk 'em around to your side.
When I'm a little old lady in a nursing home or the hospital, I sure hope I have the right to determine who touches my body. The thought of having no choice in the matter is quite chilling.
Y'know, I couldn't care less how many men go into nursing.
And caring, nurturing, gentleness and kindness = nursing, and people think of that as feminine, I am happy.
I am so tired of PC nonsense. If a woman wants to join the service and carry a weapon she should have that right. But I sure don't need to see "soldier" redefined as feminine.
Let the poopstorm commence.
The traits you mention don't have to be feminine. Lots of men have those traits as well. I have also met many women who were very uncaring, disrespectful, loud, brutal, vindictive, you name it. Some of them nurses. Nursing doesn't have to be redefined as masculine to include males.
You will always have patients who will prefer a same sex caregiver, as I do myself, and from the many prior posts I see that I am not alone. Both sexes should be represented.
I do care how many men go into nursing, the more the better. And that's better for me.
For people that refuse all HCP of a certain sex, for a certain reason, that is one thing. I have a problem with the ones that go to their male docs and let them do pelvics, breast exam, etc, but won't let a male nurse or CNA take care of them. I just don't get it. I was constantly changing the pt assignment when I did LTC, b/c certain pt refused the (only) male nurse we had on staff. And he basically just gave them meds!
I haven't read every post on this thread... yet, but so far I have not heard anyone mention that the male patient has the same right as the female patient... even though it may be more difficult to respond favorably to a request to have only a male nurse. There ARE some men who would prefer not to be subjected to intimate examination/treatment by a female health-care provider of any degree of education/professional attainment, etc... just like some women. Personally, I believe, whenever possible, it is best to place oneself in the other's "shoes," and try to be sensitive to and considerate of everyone's feeling and personal preferences... and I suspect I have a lot of company on this issue among my colleagues. Having said that, I think there are circumstances where I might be prompted to address racial discrimination from a patient... in a way that would hopefully help them feel more comfortable.
"Y'know, I couldn't care less how many men go into nursing
...
Let the poopstorm commence"
I don't care about men in nursing. If they want to become nurses, fine. If they don't, mazel tov. It doesn't matter to me either way.
And you eliminated a very important piece of my comments but then, that piece didn't suit you, did it? You know, the piece that says that people should be included where they want to be but it doesn't require redefining an entire vocation.
The traits you mention don't have to be feminine. Lots of men have those traits as well. I have also met many women how were very uncaring, disrespectful, loud, brutal, vindictive, you name it. Some of them nurses. Nursing doesn't have to be redefined as masculine to include males.
Of course many men do. But those traits are traditionally yin, and that's what I'm talking about. Redefining an entire culture and ignoring the usual hormone-driven traits associated with each sex, albeit exaggeratedly.
And I think men who want to be nurses should be. It just isn't my battle. I have my own.
I really think the tone gets set by the people in charge. If the "authority figure" is willing to tell the patient that this everyone is a professional and there for her benefit, they tend to accept it. But when those in power (especially, I hate to say, the women in power) validate this irrationality, the patient is emboldened in their stance.
Patients need to understand that, in health care, sex is farthest thing from any caregiver's mind.
I found this to be the case in my first nursing job, working in OB/Gyn... Fortunately I had supportive coworkers and charge nurses. Unfortunately I still see male students and aides that have their authority as a caregiver undermined by overzealous nurses who automatically assume that little old ladies don't want a man 'looking at them'. In most cases I find the attitude of the senior nurses and physicians set the tone for the patient. Even in cases where the patient is a little resistant to the idea, when our attitude is one of "don't worry, this is how we do things now, and it's really OK" most patients open up and accept you without regard to gender.
Unfortunately, the other side of this argument has validity as well. Our patients do have rights. There are some patients out there that may have been abused/raped/traumatized by a man at some point in their lives. These patients can have lingering fear about being alone in close physical contact with a man. It would be entirely inappropriate to suggest to these patients that they just deal with the situation and get over their inhibitions. Unfortunately you can't necessarily ID these patients ahead of time.
Moral of the story - try to be progressive and encourage the public to be accepting of the demographics in the field of nursing, but above all pay attention to what your patient is saying with their body language and facial expressions. Those will usually tell you if you can break through their preconceptions.
I haven't read every post on this thread... yet, but so far I have not heard anyone mention that the male patient has the same right as the female patient...
I would never go to a male Dr for any gynae-related medical problem and when I had my children I refused to have male Drs attending. If my wishes had been disregarded because 'we don't gender discriminate at this facility', I would have walked out and then sued the hospital.
This gender bias in medicine is a typical example of men using their power and authority and as a woman I will not be controlled by a male. How dare male nurses think they are being discriminated against when all throughout history women have suffered because of injustices and the belief women were inferior.
Let's not turn this into a war of the sexes. No one is suggesting that we try to control our female patients. We are all in this profession because we have a genuine desire to help people that are scared, suffering, etc. I for one would never force my care on a patient that truly didn't want it. But when we let ignorance go unchallenged, we all lose. Some patients have simply never considered having a male caregiver, plain and simple. There's nothing wrong with gently suggesting that we rethink these preconceptions and accept us for who we are, not for our gender.
Let's face it, ladies. We men are here to stay, and as the shortage becomes worse, you'll only depend on us more. We're not all chauvinist pigs. We all win when we work together.
callmekipling
104 Posts
racism != sexism.
Sure, it's a PITA to have to shuffle assignments. Sure, you'll feel like you don't have as many rights (ETA: you don't) if your pt takes one look at you and goes "uh-uh."
But saying "I'm not comfortable having you wash my thing because you're a man" is a far cry from saying "I don't want you to wash me because I think you're antiquated farm equipment." One of these things delineates a personal limit to your comfort zone - the other is the source of most of what's wrong with the world.
The thing is - it's not you. It's them. Male or female. It's what they're comfortable with. You have thrown out many of your own prejudices (against poop and such) to work in nursing, and expect the same of your patients. Meanwhile, they retain their prejudices (against men and such) and expect the same of you. Same problem (projection), opposite sides.
Next time someone refuses you based on gender, tell 'em you'd be glad to ask the female nurse to help 'em out - but ask, if they're comfortable sharing, why. Maybe you can educate them, there's some small chance you can make it easier for the next round of people. By the same token, maybe you can't, and at least you know they're too far gone to talk 'em around to your side.