EEK! There's a MAN in my room!

Nurses General Nursing

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At my facility, some residents have tried to avoid care from employees who are African American as a matter of policy. Usually, they say, "I don't want a [unrepeatable] working with me!" When this happens, they get a looooong talk from management, who explains in no uncertain terms that they *will* be cared for by *whomever* happens to be assigned to them, and if this is unacceptable they are more than welcome to transfer to another facility.

At this same facility, I have some residents who say "I don't want a MAN working with me!" When this happens, the men get a looooong talk from management, who explains in no uncertain terms that residents have *rights* and we will need to juggle assignments and if this is unacceptable they are more than welcome to transfer to another facility.

I don't "get" why we don't tolerate the first form of discrimination but actively embrace the second. I've been told it isn't my problem (I'm female) and maybe I need some sensitivity training (patients' rights) or some Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (belief adjustment).

The traditional definition of discrimination says it can only take place against oppressed groups. It's only about what happens to people in the disempowered classes, like women. The traditional definition addresses groups.

The new definition involves "disparate treatment" or "disparate impact". This is intentionally treating an individual (like a male employee) less favorably than another individual (like a female employee) in the same circumstances. This definition addresses individuals.

I see in nursing education that a male nursing student who is not provided with the opportunity to help female patients is not receiving the same level of education and training as his female peers, and this is unethical. (Bala Shark, https://allnurses.com/forums/f213/instructor-not-letting-me-get-female-patients-during-clincal-138135.html )

In nursing practice, I'm seeing that a male nursing employee (CNA, in my case) is not allowed to work with the 97-pound person who has rights, and seems to end up with the 306 pound person who has C-diff. Looks like "disparate treatment" or "disparate impact" to me.

Is this ... ethical? I feel like I should be doing something, or saying something to somebody, hence this post.

I totally agree that more men should get into nursing, but I think a patient can chose not to have a male nurse. I choose not to go to a male gynecologist. Most of nursing is very personal. I'm just a student but have seen A LOT of naked patients, lol. I can understand why a woman would want a female nurse. It's just the state of the world. Heck, I've noticed male patients love having female nurses, something I don't really understand. I guess peoples view of nursing is that it's kind of feminine. This needs to change.

Also, gender is totally different from race. You can't compare the two in this situation because the reasons for a patient refusing a male nurse/doctor is totally different from the reason one rejects a minority nurse/doctor. The reason based on race is usually wrong and hateful.

i was in the hospital for close to 7 months, when i was 15.

to this day, i clearly remember the male dr. who came behind the closed curtains, as i was on the bedpan.

i wasn't covered in a sheet/towel.

and he just stood there, not saying a word, and stared....i mean, stared.

he eventually walked out, never uttering a word.

i can tell you, at this moment, my heart stands still, recalling him and associating that with yrs of horrific, torturous abuse by male cult members.

ironically, 2 of these cult members, were md's.

one a psychiatrist, the other, a pediatrician.

i will tell you guys, sometimes, all it takes is that 'look' to scare a female from being effectively cared for.

a male may feel he has the gift of appeasing all fears, making others feel safe, gentle mannerism, etc.

this does not work.

a damaged mind, is a damaged mind.

even if i can intellectually appreciate the abilities of any one caregiver, my psychological state may never be healed.

still working on it, though.

and if i ever reach that day, i promise, i'll invite all you male nurses in to bathe me and my 95 yo body. :)

leslie

i can't see how having a gender/race/sex orient nurse that you don't approve of would be valid reasons for a lawsuit

a nurse is a nurse is a nurse

if anyone goes thru the extreme effort to go thru nursing school/ orientation, getting up and going to work to provide the best care that they are capable of giving to have someone who had problems with a person with an accent, skin different than yours, maybe they were wearing a cross, crescent or star of david

it is impossible to provide adequate care for everybody if a nurse has to skip several rooms because of the prejudice of a patient

the type of abuse that a woman commits is more subtle but traumatic just the same re: look at all the teacher/pupil occurance

they did not just start happening they have been there all the while but they are just now being reported

if you are going to be in a hospital make plans before you are admitted if it is not an emergency ,his would be courteous and give them time to accede to your request

and because men were once given rights not open to women it does not make it right to discrimminate against the men alive now who did not have anything to do with that

these men are our sons, brothers, husbands who ae nurses, emts, mds

let them be judged on their capabilites

I'm sorry chatsdale, a nurse is a nurse is a nurse is simplistic in relation to healthcare, patient's rights and discrimination.

Women have throughout the ages been subject to the notion they are a man's chattel, first their father, then their husband, with no rights or status. The suffrage movement liberated women in more ways than simply allowing us to have the vote. We were viewed as equal participants in society at all levels.

This however has not been the case in healthcare. The paternalistic views of Drs has been widely documented. Even now women are treated in a different manner to men in some areas. We still have limited choice for example in being able to choose a female gynaecologist because the profession remains male dominated.

Women have a right to choose who will care for their intimate needs and if a woman decides she is happy with a male nurse catheterising her then fine, but if she wants a female attendant, that is her right and in fact that should be a right enshrined in stone for her to do that.

Women in nursing have also been victims of the male domination in the healthcare field, our profession still retain the 'doctors handmaiden' reputation and while we may be a respected profession, we are abused disproportionately compared to a Dr. Even female Drs will testify to the discrimination in the medical profession.

Equality for women has come a long far thanks to the hard working feminists of the bygone era, however it is not over by a long shot.

At this point, pts should be happy they have a nurse at all. I can't wait to see how they react when there is only 1 nurse per floor because everyone got fed up and quit.

If a woman has psyc issues over having been raped or something similar where she had good reason to be extremely uncomfortable with a male care giver then I will give it to them. Otherwise nope. They get told that he is a registered nurse with the same education and training as I. He is a professional and a very good nurse. I tell them I would have no quams with him caring me or any female member of my family. I would feel in very safe hands. He will treat you with respect and honor your privacy. We have a limited number of nurses and he is yours. If you want care you will get very good care from him.

I have not problem doing a female cath for a male college and they will usually do the same for me. I also have no problem if a male asks me to be his witness at the bedside as he is in a vulnerable position where a pt could cry rape or molestation falsely.

This is the same issue as when they say, I don't want that foreign nurse (often followed with, "who can't speak English"), or that (racial explitive) taking care of me. They get the same talk.

Interesting enough there are male patients who do this too. They want only a female. At the same time many women and it ( it is the old ladies at that) who prefer a man taking care of them.

I have yet to find a situation when it was a man insisting on a female when it was not because he saw women as sex objects (regardless of his age). Often the younger the female nurses the better he liked it and the nastier he was.

Nope you can not treat my young female nurses/CNAs this way either.

Specializes in ED.

hey y'all- as nurses (and nursing students, myself included!) we know more than anyone that when you try to change something by force you get resistance, when you try to change something by education you will eventually gain ground.

women have had to fight for all the ground they have gained against gender biases. women couldn't sit around and "wait" for anyone to legislate the changes we deserve - heck, the 19th amendment giving women the vote was ratified only 87 years ago!!!

the women's movement was a powerful force in raising the consciousness of men and women in this country and that was the only way things began to actually (and institutionally) improve for women. and even though we deserve equality we still have to struggle to earn it -- is that fair?? no! but it is reality.

so my point is this: guys if you want to really get to the systemic reasons for female patients refusing male nurses then you need to do some serious consciousness raising across this land. men need to raise the consciousness of other men about the unacceptability of violence against women and children. since statistically it is men who are perpetrating most of the physical and sexual violence against women (which leads women patients naturally to a place of distrust) then a lot of men need to make some serious changes before a different less biased perception of all men takes root.

i agree with chatsdale that "because men were once given rights not open to women it does not make it right to discrimminate against the men alive now who did not have anything to do with that

these men are our sons, brothers, husbands who ae nurses, emts, mds

let them be judged on their capabilites"

but ask any woman--it is a long hard fight to get people who have bias (justified or not) to judge you on your capabilities!!!!!

you guys have to take up the task and start educating other men that what they are doing if they are being violent towards women is unacceptable.

i can think of no better group of people to do this than nurses who are men. i picture a group of male nurses at a table at a health fair somewhere under a banner that reads "nurses united against violence towards women." what a powerful image - and what an impact that would have on young men and women seeing nurses - with all the moral, professional, and trustworthy authority that society associates with them - taking a stand and trying to change the world!!! the young men might begin to imagine a non-violent future and the young women might see that male nurses are not the enemy just because they are men.

so it's a way bigger issue than just- oh the institution has to enforce a policy.....

I actually disagree with the OP. I'm a male, and perhaps that's why, but I believe it's a matter of dignity, not sexism, that most patients don't want male nurses. A person doesn't want an african-american nurse because they despise that race as "beneath" them. That is racism and completely wrong. A person (usually female) doesn't want a male RN because they do not feel comfortable speaking about personal issues with a member of the opposite sex unless it's a doctor. Is this a double standard? Perhaps. But I see their POV and I have no problem switching pt if this is the reason

If a woman has psyc issues over having been raped or something similar where she had good reason to be extremely uncomfortable with a male care giver then I will give it to them. Otherwise nope. They get told that he is a registered nurse with the same education and training as I. He is a professional and a very good nurse. I tell them I would have no quams with him caring me or any female member of my family. I would feel in very safe hands. He will treat you with respect and honor your privacy. We have a limited number of nurses and he is yours. If you want care you will get very good care from him.

I have not problem doing a female cath for a male college and they will usually do the same for me. I also have no problem if a male asks me to be his witness at the bedside as he is in a vulnerable position where a pt could cry rape or molestation falsely.

This is the same issue as when they say, I don't want that foreign nurse (often followed with, "who can't speak English"), or that (racial explitive) taking care of me. They get the same talk.

Interesting enough there are male patients who do this too. They want only a female. At the same time many women and it ( it is the old ladies at that) who prefer a man taking care of them.

I have yet to find a situation when it was a man insisting on a female when it was not because he saw women as sex objects (regardless of his age). Often the younger the female nurses the better he liked it and the nastier he was.

Nope you can not treat my young female nurses/CNAs this way either.

So if I understand you correctly, the right for the pt to feel comfortable no longer applies? If the pt is in urgent care and has a male RN, and just says "I don't want a male RN, I'm uncomfortable with a male looking at me like that", you're just going to tell her to tough it out? That's not nursing. Nursing is about being hollistic, about caring for the whole pt. We don't "force" the pt to do a procedure that is uncomfortable; they have a right to refuse. They should also be given the right to refuse treatment from someone that they feel uncomfortable with. If a married amish woman, who has only had one man ever see her nude, doesn't want a male RN as a nurse, we should respect that. Same for any other woman (or man) in that situation.

I totally agree that more men should get into nursing, but I think a patient can chose not to have a male nurse.

Y'know, I couldn't care less how many men go into nursing.

And caring, nurturing, gentleness and kindness = nursing, and people think of that as feminine, I am happy.

I am so tired of PC nonsense. If a woman wants to join the service and carry a weapon she should have that right. But I sure don't need to see "soldier" redefined as feminine.

Let the poopstorm commence.

Y'know, I couldn't care less how many men go into nursing.

And caring, nurturing, gentleness and kindness = nursing, and people think of that as feminine, I am happy.

I am so tired of PC nonsense. If a woman wants to join the service and carry a weapon she should have that right. But I sure don't need to see "soldier" redefined as feminine.

Let the poopstorm commence.

haha...That's a good example of the military. I never thought about it that way. You are definitely right. I'm still just a student, and am worried about making blanket statements. So, I was trying to be PC. The fact that nursing is a caring profession is what draws me to it because I'm nurturing by nature, and I love being that way.

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