EEK! There's a MAN in my room!

Nurses General Nursing

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At my facility, some residents have tried to avoid care from employees who are African American as a matter of policy. Usually, they say, "I don't want a [unrepeatable] working with me!" When this happens, they get a looooong talk from management, who explains in no uncertain terms that they *will* be cared for by *whomever* happens to be assigned to them, and if this is unacceptable they are more than welcome to transfer to another facility.

At this same facility, I have some residents who say "I don't want a MAN working with me!" When this happens, the men get a looooong talk from management, who explains in no uncertain terms that residents have *rights* and we will need to juggle assignments and if this is unacceptable they are more than welcome to transfer to another facility.

I don't "get" why we don't tolerate the first form of discrimination but actively embrace the second. I've been told it isn't my problem (I'm female) and maybe I need some sensitivity training (patients' rights) or some Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (belief adjustment).

The traditional definition of discrimination says it can only take place against oppressed groups. It's only about what happens to people in the disempowered classes, like women. The traditional definition addresses groups.

The new definition involves "disparate treatment" or "disparate impact". This is intentionally treating an individual (like a male employee) less favorably than another individual (like a female employee) in the same circumstances. This definition addresses individuals.

I see in nursing education that a male nursing student who is not provided with the opportunity to help female patients is not receiving the same level of education and training as his female peers, and this is unethical. (Bala Shark, https://allnurses.com/forums/f213/instructor-not-letting-me-get-female-patients-during-clincal-138135.html )

In nursing practice, I'm seeing that a male nursing employee (CNA, in my case) is not allowed to work with the 97-pound person who has rights, and seems to end up with the 306 pound person who has C-diff. Looks like "disparate treatment" or "disparate impact" to me.

Is this ... ethical? I feel like I should be doing something, or saying something to somebody, hence this post.

My issue was not with you at all, actually. It was with the idea that the feelings of discrimination some male RNs encounter should somehow trump the very legitimate needs of some female patients. I also think it's unfortunate to have it enshrined in policy that males cannot perform intimate care for women.

I'm glad we are on the same page elizabells. I agree with you all the way on this. No patient should have to accept any form of care that would compromise the patient's emotional well being. That defeats the purpose of the care in the first place. It isn't about the caregiver, it's about the patient. As Leslie so eloquently put it, mental health has to be considered too.

Males who are sexually abused are overwhelmingly assaulted by other men. Basically, male human beings are the ones prone to sexual crimes. It's statistically highly, highly unlikely for a woman to be a perpetrator of a sexual crime. I'm talking facts here, not some philisophical argument regarding equality and rights.

Statistically? Facts? The fact is that males are highly unlikely to report a sex crime committed by a female. Therefore it is practically impossible to evaluate to just how often this occurs. Just how can a weak female overcome and abuse a big strong male? It's easy when the victim is a patient and an adolescent and is weakened by a way too strong dose of anesthesia, and the perpetrator happens to be his nurse who may have had a past abuse incident herself and sees this as a way of striking back. Just theorizing. I couldn't bear relating the incident on the witness stand even now. Even if I could identify my abuser and try her today for her crime there is no way I could give testimony in a trial even after 34 years, so she would probably get away with it. Men just don't report sex crimes.

Statistically? Facts? The fact is that males are highly unlikely to report a sex crime committed by a female. Therefore it is practically impossible to evaluate to just how often this occurs. Just how can a weak female overcome and abuse a big strong male? It's easy when the victim is a patient and an adolescent and is weakened by a way too strong dose of anesthesia, and the perpetrator happens to be his nurse who may have had a past abuse incident herself and sees this as a way of striking back. Just theorizing. I couldn't bear relating the incident on the witness stand even now. Even if I could identify my abuser and try her today for her crime there is no way I could give testimony in a trial even after 34 years, so she would probably get away with it. Men just don't report sex crimes.

If you're theorizing why couldn't you bear to recount it?

I'm confused.

If you're theorizing why couldn't you bear to recount it?

I'm confused.

Just theorizing as to her motives.

Besides, this forum is anonymous, so it's easier to talk about things you never could in person, when everybody knows who you are and you have to look at them later. I didn't go into much detail either if you noticed.

We once had a LOL refusing care from a male or AA. Just her luck one night all we had were two AA male aides so she was out of luck. What did she do? she cried harrassment the first time her aide went into her room to get her a bedpan. I tell you that is one way to make sure the people respect your wishes. The facility has to investigate, and no other males or AA will agree to work with you again.

I have no issues with a patient requesting another caretaker, after all, if you are forced on them, you can not really provide holistic care due to the resistance and all will become frustrated.

Just theorizing as to her motives.

Besides, this forum is anonymous, so it's easier to talk about things you never could in person, when everybody knows who you are and you have to look at them later. I didn't go into much detail either if you noticed.

Gotcha.

That's terrible.

Specializes in LTC, Med/Surg, Peds, ICU, Tele.

But when men do report sex crimes, the abuser is almost always a man, end of story. Your case is a statistical minority. Or do you maintain that men are more likely to report a sexual violation on them that was commited by another man? I find that unbelievable! Your average heterosexual man would never want to admit he was raped by another man!

And speaking towards your case, if you felt uncomfortable being treated or cared for by a woman, you have a right to request a different caregiver.

Statistically? Facts? The fact is that males are highly unlikely to report a sex crime committed by a female. Therefore it is practically impossible to evaluate to just how often this occurs.

....

Men just don't report sex crimes.

And neither do a lot of women. Every woman I know has been close to sexual victimization. Some have escaped, others haven't.

I am sorry that this happened to you, but you are in an extreme minority.

I KNOW race isn't gender...(and I am not advocating one way or the other here...I just want to know) but doesn't the question remain the same?

Some have said that they would not stand for being made to feel uncomfortable in their medical cares, ie: having an opposite-sex provider.

So the patient should never feel uncomfortable? What if a patient truly is uncomfortable receiving cares from a black/white/asian/hispanic or Jew/Christian/Muslim or anything else? Why should the patient HAVE to put up with that discomfort? Shouldn't the patient's needs come before the feelings of the rejected provider(s)? That is the argument that some of you are making. Is it more legitimate to be uncomfortable if you have a good reason?

Specializes in LTC, Med/Surg, Peds, ICU, Tele.

The fact of the matter is that men, due to genetic hardwiring, are far, far more prone to being sexual predators. The male tendency towards promiscuity goes back to primitive humans and the evolutionary advantage of spreading one's DNA far and wide to ensure descendants. This has been discussed in scientific journals, and also obvious through using common sense.

Women throughout history have been the more powerless gender, subject to the domination of human males, a certain percentage of whom manifest highly aggressive and predatorial traits, and violent tendencies. This a fact of human history. No, not every man is Genghis Khan, but a certain percentage of men are.

Another fact is that this level of physical aggressiveness is rare in women. That's just the way it is, so it's understandable that some women must have female caregivers.

I KNOW race isn't gender...(and I am not advocating one way or the other here...I just want to know) but doesn't the question remain the same?

Some have said that they would not stand for being made to feel uncomfortable in their medical cares, ie: having an opposite-sex provider.

So the patient should never feel uncomfortable? What if a patient truly is uncomfortable receiving cares from a black/white/asian/hispanic or Jew/Christian/Muslim or anything else? Why should the patient HAVE to put up with that discomfort? Shouldn't the patient's needs come before the feelings of the rejected provider(s)? That is the argument that some of you are making. Is it more legitimate to be uncomfortable if you have a good reason?

I suppose it's a matter of degree. If there is something about the provider that causes one to revisit a traumatic past, then that's enough to warrant a change of assignment. It's more than just discomfort. I've been uncomfortable with providers without expressing it. For example, when I had some PT on my neck a while back, there were both male and female therapists. One male in particular smoked, and he was always taking a cig break at what seemed like 5 minute intervals. Of course he stunk like a cigarette. Even with the breath mints. The female therapist didn't smoke. So of course I preferred to get care from her. While it was personal care, it was not intimate care. That was one instance where I preferred the care by a female though it had nothing to do with sex. The male therapist made me uncomfortable with his ciggy smell, but not traumatized.

No matter what a male providers ethnic origin is, or his religious beliefs, or what his sexual orientation is, he is still a man like me. It takes a lot of social discomfort away from the care and modesty is not really an issue, as long as he is careful to provide privacy. With a female that is not the case as I relate exposure to women in the clinical environment with trauma. Her race, religion, or sexual preferences are not the issue.

But when men do report sex crimes, the abuser is almost always a man, end of story. Your case is a statistical minority. Or do you maintain that men are more likely to report a sexual violation on them that was commited by another man? I find that unbelievable! Your average heterosexual man would never want to admit he was raped by another man!

And speaking towards your case, if you felt uncomfortable being treated or cared for by a woman, you have a right to request a different caregiver.

Yes I do, now that you mention it. It would be humiliating enough for a man to admit to sex abuse by another male. But consider the essence of a sex crime. It's not about sex, it's about power and dominance. For a heterosexual male to admit to a sex crime by a female perpetrator is much worse. A man is supposed to be stronger than a female, and to be dominated like that by a female is a huge humiliation. Men expect other men to be strong and aggressive, so being overpowered by another male is not beyond reality. Being dominated sexually by a female is, for a man, beyond reality. Even if he is in a helpless, vulnerable situation. So, yes, I think a male would be less likely the report sex abuse with a female as the perpetrator than he would if the perp was a male.

Nobody wants to admit to being victimized sexually regardless of the sex of either party. Admitting it aside, nobody wants to be raped period! It scars your soul.

As to your last sentence, yes, I agree that I do have the right to request same gender care, but having that request granted is another matter.

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