EEK! There's a MAN in my room!

Nurses General Nursing

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At my facility, some residents have tried to avoid care from employees who are African American as a matter of policy. Usually, they say, "I don't want a [unrepeatable] working with me!" When this happens, they get a looooong talk from management, who explains in no uncertain terms that they *will* be cared for by *whomever* happens to be assigned to them, and if this is unacceptable they are more than welcome to transfer to another facility.

At this same facility, I have some residents who say "I don't want a MAN working with me!" When this happens, the men get a looooong talk from management, who explains in no uncertain terms that residents have *rights* and we will need to juggle assignments and if this is unacceptable they are more than welcome to transfer to another facility.

I don't "get" why we don't tolerate the first form of discrimination but actively embrace the second. I've been told it isn't my problem (I'm female) and maybe I need some sensitivity training (patients' rights) or some Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (belief adjustment).

The traditional definition of discrimination says it can only take place against oppressed groups. It's only about what happens to people in the disempowered classes, like women. The traditional definition addresses groups.

The new definition involves "disparate treatment" or "disparate impact". This is intentionally treating an individual (like a male employee) less favorably than another individual (like a female employee) in the same circumstances. This definition addresses individuals.

I see in nursing education that a male nursing student who is not provided with the opportunity to help female patients is not receiving the same level of education and training as his female peers, and this is unethical. (Bala Shark, https://allnurses.com/forums/f213/instructor-not-letting-me-get-female-patients-during-clincal-138135.html )

In nursing practice, I'm seeing that a male nursing employee (CNA, in my case) is not allowed to work with the 97-pound person who has rights, and seems to end up with the 306 pound person who has C-diff. Looks like "disparate treatment" or "disparate impact" to me.

Is this ... ethical? I feel like I should be doing something, or saying something to somebody, hence this post.

Maybe the patient has a reason that they don't want to be cared for by a man. You never know what a patient has been through. Until recently, for reasons that I don't feel the need to explain since they are my own personal reasons, I would only go to women gynecologists or PCPs.

Maybe a patient has a reason that they don't want to be cared for by an African-American. Maybe the patient has a reason not to be cared for by somebody gay. The point isn't whether or not there's a reason. The point is that it's ILLEGAL to discriminate on gender, just as it's illegal to discriminate based on race.

If I own a business, and I've been deeply traumatized by women, it doesn't matter if I have a reason for my discrimination - I'm still not allowed to hire only men.

If I own a store, it doesn't matter if I was deeply traumatized during the Vietnam war - I'm still not allowed to refuse service to a Vietnamese customer because of that.

Having a really good reason for discrimination doesn't change the fact that it is discrimination.

Specializes in vascular, med surg, home health , rehab,.

You can legislate just about anything, fact is, being in the hospital isnt the same as being in a store or any other kind of business, Your not usually naked in a store, and strangers aren't doing extremely personal things to you. One thing buying cheese puffs, another being cathed or bathed by a person your uncomfortable or even traumatised by.

PTSD???? In some cases. I don't think its that black and white. People are actually paying huge amounts for a service, they discriminate all the time. Your forgetting, they dont sue customers for not shopping a store because they don't like the owner, For any reason.

Specializes in acute care.

I will agree to disagree

Maybe a patient has a reason that they don't want to be cared for by an African-American. Maybe the patient has a reason not to be cared for by somebody gay. The point isn't whether or not there's a reason. The point is that it's ILLEGAL to discriminate on gender, just as it's illegal to discriminate based on race.

If I own a business, and I've been deeply traumatized by women, it doesn't matter if I have a reason for my discrimination - I'm still not allowed to hire only men.

If I own a store, it doesn't matter if I was deeply traumatized during the Vietnam war - I'm still not allowed to refuse service to a Vietnamese customer because of that.

Having a really good reason for discrimination doesn't change the fact that it is discrimination.

You can legislate just about anything, fact is, being in the hospital isnt the same as being in a store or any other kind of business, Your not usually naked in a store, and strangers aren't doing extremely personal things to you. One thing buying cheese puffs, another being cathed or bathed by a person your uncomfortable or even traumatised by.

PTSD???? In some cases. I don't think its that black and white. People are actually paying huge amounts for a service, they discriminate all the time. Your forgetting, they dont sue customers for not shopping a store because they don't like the owner, For any reason.

Patients can do whatever they want - that's not the issue. They can ask for all white nurses; they can ask for all female nurses. And you're right, they're not going to get sued. It's the hospital that's breaking the law when they accommodate the patient's wishes in a way that causes a disparate impact.

Yeah, if someone doesn't shop in a store because they don't like the owner, they're not going to get sued. But if they don't like having women help them, the owner can't hire an all-male staff, even if the alternative is going out of business.

That's the legal ideal. In reality of course, nobody gets in trouble for discriminating against men, so hospitals can - and they do. However, when everyone's scratching their heads wondering why we can't get more men into nursing, the fact that we're tremendously discriminated against (with impunity) has to factor into it at least a little bit.

Specializes in LTC, Med/Surg, Peds, ICU, Tele.

I've read varying statistics on rape and sexual abuse and all of them are shocking. 1 in 4 girls has been molested was one I read.

Here is one site http://www.rainn.org/statistics/index.html?gclid=CIGB85_A4I8CFR3whgodg2cI8A

  • Every two and a half minutes, somewhere in America, someone is sexually assaulted.
  • One in six American women are victims of sexual assault, and one in 33 men.
  • In 2004-2005, there were an average annual 200,780 victims of rape, attempted rape or sexual assault.
  • About 44% of rape victims are under age 18, and 80% are under age 30.
  • Since 1993, rape/sexual assault has fallen by over 69%.

Here's another site. In 99% of rapes of both men and women, the perpetrator is a man

http://www2.ucsc.edu/rape-prevention/statistics.html

Some of these victims are sufferers of post tramatic stress syndrome. I, myself, have been molested as a child and I only will have a female exam done by a woman practitioner.

As far as I'm concerned, patients who have strong preferances should be accomodated. I think people should stop turning it into an equal rights for men crusade. Men have always had more than their share of rights in this world and then some!!!!

thank you, jls.

omg...thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!

leslie

Specializes in acute care.

I send you a BILLION "thanks" for this posting.

I've read varying statistics on rape and sexual abuse and all of them are shocking. 1 in 4 girls has been molested was one I read.

Here is one site http://www.rainn.org/statistics/index.html?gclid=CIGB85_A4I8CFR3whgodg2cI8A

  • Every two and a half minutes, somewhere in America, someone is sexually assaulted.
  • One in six American women are victims of sexual assault, and one in 33 men.
  • In 2004-2005, there were an average annual 200,780 victims of rape, attempted rape or sexual assault.
  • About 44% of rape victims are under age 18, and 80% are under age 30.
  • Since 1993, rape/sexual assault has fallen by over 69%.

Here's another site. In 99% of rapes of both men and women, the perpetrator is a man

http://www2.ucsc.edu/rape-prevention/statistics.html

Some of these victims are sufferers of post tramatic stress syndrome. I, myself, have been molested as a child and I only will have a female exam done by a woman practitioner.

As far as I'm concerned, patients who have strong preferances should be accomodated. I think people should stop turning it into an equal rights for men crusade. Men have always had more than their share of rights in this world and then some!!!!

Specializes in CCRN, ATCN, ABLS.

One of the most interesting discussions in allnurses.

First, the OP cleverly pits two minorities and nursing care (one based on race, the other one based on gender)

We could never think of accommodating a racist.

We should never accommodate on the base of gender.

Professional nurses should not be subject to this kind of illegal gender manipulation.

Patients need to be educated on this matter kindly (KINDLY in capital letters), but firmly.

Patient safety, acuity, skills, and load should be the primary concerns in making patient assignments, not gender.

Hospitals provide a service to patients and communities. Patients are welcome to refuse care if they so wish.

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of bigotry humans are capable of. From race to gender to age to immigrants to gays.

Yesterday I took care of a lesbian couple. I did not even think for a second that because I am a happy heterosexual male, I could refuse a patient assignment based on beliefs or feelings (BTW, this is just an example and just to make a point, because I certainly respect everyones abilities to choose their lifestyle). The very same expectation should apply to our patients. If we need to spend a little extra time educating, so be it. I provided the best professional care possible.

The moment we start comporting ourselves as a professional occupation, we will get more respect.

Patient preferences regarding gender should be the very last priority in considering patient care. Professional nursing care is not gender based.

Wayunderpaid

Specializes in LTC, Med/Surg, Peds, ICU, Tele.

You're welcome Leslie. I just felt that needed to be said.

Specializes in vascular, med surg, home health , rehab,.

I personally choose a female GYN; No, No demons in the closet, not that I feel a man can't do an equal a job with my PAP; I just don't feel comfortable with it. With such a personal, invasive thing, sorry, its not discriminatory, just reducing the "fear factor"involved. How many women would avoid screenings if they thought they didn't have a choice in the gender of the person doing this? If A man didnt want me cathing him, I completely understand it. Not discrimination, just what makes a tough thing easier. What is wrong with that?

Specializes in vascular, med surg, home health , rehab,.

Patient preferences regarding gender should be the very last priority in considering patient care. Professional nursing care is not gender based.

Well unlesss you are paying the ridiculously inflated bill they and we are paying, they do have a choice. It amazes me, you go to a mechanic and you can balk at the price, get sick and tough luck. They can't choose whose touches them?? Really?

I would never go to a male Dr for any gynae-related medical problem and when I had my children I refused to have male Drs attending. If my wishes had been disregarded because 'we don't gender discriminate at this facility', I would have walked out and then sued the hospital.

This gender bias in medicine is a typical example of men using their power and authority and as a woman I will not be controlled by a male. How dare male nurses think they are being discriminated against when all throughout history women have suffered because of injustices and the belief women were inferior.

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