EEK! There's a MAN in my room!

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At my facility, some residents have tried to avoid care from employees who are African American as a matter of policy. Usually, they say, "I don't want a [unrepeatable] working with me!" When this happens, they get a looooong talk from management, who explains in no uncertain terms that they *will* be cared for by *whomever* happens to be assigned to them, and if this is unacceptable they are more than welcome to transfer to another facility.

At this same facility, I have some residents who say "I don't want a MAN working with me!" When this happens, the men get a looooong talk from management, who explains in no uncertain terms that residents have *rights* and we will need to juggle assignments and if this is unacceptable they are more than welcome to transfer to another facility.

I don't "get" why we don't tolerate the first form of discrimination but actively embrace the second. I've been told it isn't my problem (I'm female) and maybe I need some sensitivity training (patients' rights) or some Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (belief adjustment).

The traditional definition of discrimination says it can only take place against oppressed groups. It's only about what happens to people in the disempowered classes, like women. The traditional definition addresses groups.

The new definition involves "disparate treatment" or "disparate impact". This is intentionally treating an individual (like a male employee) less favorably than another individual (like a female employee) in the same circumstances. This definition addresses individuals.

I see in nursing education that a male nursing student who is not provided with the opportunity to help female patients is not receiving the same level of education and training as his female peers, and this is unethical. (Bala Shark, https://allnurses.com/forums/f213/instructor-not-letting-me-get-female-patients-during-clincal-138135.html )

In nursing practice, I'm seeing that a male nursing employee (CNA, in my case) is not allowed to work with the 97-pound person who has rights, and seems to end up with the 306 pound person who has C-diff. Looks like "disparate treatment" or "disparate impact" to me.

Is this ... ethical? I feel like I should be doing something, or saying something to somebody, hence this post.

Specializes in Mother-Baby.

Some people (for a variety of reasons, mostly due to religion or up-bringing) are more reserved and don't want a man to "see them naked", etc. I think these same people force themselves to endure a MD looking at them because they feel they have to and it's FAST (or they're under ansesthesia)!!! Nurses are with their patients 8-12 hours a day - where doctors come in the room for 1-10 minutes and leave. Since the patient is going to spend about 12 hours with their Nurse they stress over the fact that you might need to see them naked or have seen them naked, etc.

Also, women with abusive partners may not want a male nurse - especially if their partner is in the habit of accusing them of cheating, or wanting to cheat. I'm taking a Family Violence class and this is a HUGE reason for the way many women react sometimes - especially if they are being psychologically, emotionally abused, etc.

I know these aren't always the case - but it's good to remember that there are plenty of times when it's not really you or your gender but a psychologial issue the patient has.

God Bless!:balloons:

txpixiedust

Specializes in O.R., ED, M/S.

In my 30 years as a nurse, not once have I been asked by a patient or anyone to not care for a female patient. I have prepped, put in a catheter, shaved a patient while she was awake. I always have another female nurse with me but have had no problems. I think it has to do with the way you approach a patient and the confidence you give. I don't know, I work with alot of guys and have never seen this kind of discrimination so in my little world it doesn't exist. I think too many guys approach female patients with a wimpy attitude and can't get the respect they deserve. Suck it up and don't let it bother you. Sorry for this post but I read too many posts from guys who I really wonder about their confidence and really do whine too much.

Specializes in Day Surgery, Agency, Cath Lab, LTC/Psych.
Just for the record, some of us can;). I mean, with 45 minutes' warmup, chalk and a REALLY good grip. The thing is, possible or not, it's not nice!

I have yet to meet a male aide or nurse who will refuse to help with a lift.

Thats why I love ya'll so much. You guys are so willing to help out--its just that back problems affect men and women and I hate to see people get injured.

Is this ... ethical? I feel like I should be doing something, or saying something to somebody, hence this post.

Thanks abooker, for bringing this up. Official discrimination was the reason I turned away from nursing as a career back in the 1970's. The men can't tackle this issue alone, we need the involvement of women as well. Remember the old saying, "if you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the problem." Going along to get along won't change anything.

I don't have any problem with a patient stating their preferences, even if we don't agree with their reasons. You just never know what is in a patients past that motivates them now.

I take issue with Official limitations put on male caregivers because of the personal insecurities of the policy makers. To tell a male he can't do a cath or can't do certain intimate procedures on a female, or he has to have a female chaperone if he does, is just ridiculous when you consider the fact that female caregivers might be exempt from those rules at the same facility. Sure, you hear the argument that it is for his protection, but I don't think that's the case.

Life would so much easier if everyone was held to the same standards.

Preaching to the choir but there is nothing you are going to be able to say or do to make a difference. You have to pick your battles and frankly, this battle is not win-able.

I have to disagree. Any battle is winable with the right strategy.

Discrimination benefits nobody. To tell a male caregiver he is held to limitations that his female counterparts are exempt from is discrimination. OR, to tell a male patient that he does not deserve the protections that women take for granted is discrimination. Either way, there is an obvious gender bias that nobody gains from. It hurts not only nursing, but the entire medical profession as well.

Think about what message discrimination sends to the affected group. That because you are male, your value as a human being is reduced.

Can professionalism coexist with discrimination? I don't think so.

Specializes in Emergency.

Hi there,

I read the postings on this thread and just had to put my 2 cents in! I am a new grad RN, who worked during school as a nursing assistant. While working as an NA, I worked with 2 male nurses on my unit who were great RN's. They were kind, compassionate and really went the extra mile for their patients. We got along well for that reason. Several times while working with them, I came across patients (both male and female), who were not comfortable with having a male nurse. It is my belief from this experience that there are women who will tolerate a physical exam by a male with the exalted title of Doctor, but consider male nurses (and these are NOT my words!) perverted, and creepy, not understanding the education they have, or the profession of nursing as a whole. At the same time, I have had male patients who consider all male nurses (again, NOT my words!) queer, and perverted, again because of a lack of understanding of the nursing profession. I worked with one of these great male nurses on a night when he had an older female pt. She became impacted, and had to have feces digitally removed from her rectum. I was there assisting the nurse, but this woman was so humiliated that she had to have this done by a male. She was crying, and kept asking if I could do this instead of him. Of course, this was not in my scope as an NA, so the best I could do was to stay with her during the procedure andtry to comfort her as best I could. I tried to educate her on the nursing role, etc, etc, but she was an elderly southern lady, who probably was brought up in the mind set that no male but her husband should see her naked, much less be inserting a finger into her rectum.

Another time, I had a female pt who was experiencing some irritation in her lady partsl area from the foley cath. I looked and it was indeed red and excoriated, but she did not want the male RN to look at it. I went to this RN, and told him her wishes. He asked another(female) RN to assess her peri area so she would not feel uncomfortable. The other female RN was happy to do so. The pt told me later that she was happy with the male RN's care, but she had been raped, and did not want a strange male examining her so intimately. Well, I've never been raped, but I can totally sympathize with her on this.

On the other hand, I had a male pt who made a comment to me about the male RN assigned to him questioning his sexual preference. I was quick to reply that this person was happily married with three kids, and told him about the education nurses get (being a student at the time myself). He quickly changed his attitude towards the nurse, and even requested him after that. The pt just had not been educated about the nursing profession.

So, yes, discrimination amongs the pt population happens, and yes it also can sometimes determine patient assignments (if you are lucky enough to have male nurses on your unit). In my opinion, the main thing to remember is that not all of our pts are educated as to how highly educated nurses are, and still consider us to be unskilled. This attitude will probably not change anytime soon, but the patient has a right to demand competent care from people they are comfortable with. We should always try to educate our pts first (whether it be a M/F issue or a B/W issue) before changing assignments, but it is ultimately up to the pt, and if they insist, we must try to accomodate their wishes.

I will add this: I wish more men would consider nursing as a career! All the male nurses I have worked with have been great!

Amy

Hi there,

So, yes, discrimination amongs the pt population happens, and yes it also can sometimes determine patient assignments (if you are lucky enough to have male nurses on your unit). In my opinion, the main thing to remember is that not all of our pts are educated as to how highly educated nurses are, and still consider us to be unskilled. This attitude will probably not change anytime soon, but the patient has a right to demand competent care from people they are comfortable with. We should always try to educate our pts first (whether it be a M/F issue or a B/W issue) before changing assignments, but it is ultimately up to the pt, and if they insist, we must try to accomodate their wishes.

But what if a patient or resident has a "wish" to not be treated by, say, African American or gay nurses, CNAs or doctors? Should hospitals and nursing homes go out of their way to accomodate those needs by reassignment? A patient is free to choose to go to, for instance, only female doctors in private practice, but if one has to go to a hospital or nursing home, I don't know if she or he should still be able to demand a staff based on gender, when that same hospital or nursing home would probably be reluctant to give in to wishes based on skin color or sexual preference.

You would have to go way back in history to figure out where these attitudes come from. Modesty was a virtue at one time and still is for a segment of the population. There are women who will not have a lady partsl exam by a male physician and prefer female ob-gyns. It is their right to choose. There are elderly women who have never been undressed even before their husbands in the light of day. If that woman is a resident in a nursing facility (which is her home) why should she have to feel violated in her own home when the nursing facility has females who could be assigned that resident? Over time most of the population will adjust to the fact that more men are in health care but it is going to take a lot more time than most posting here are willing to give it. Those of us who have been in nursing a long time have seen other trends that have faded into history and maybe this one will too.

Thanks abooker, for bringing this up. Official discrimination was the reason I turned away from nursing as a career back in the 1970's. The men can't tackle this issue alone, we need the involvement of women as well. Remember the old saying, "if you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the problem." Going along to get along won't change anything.

I don't have any problem with a patient stating their preferences, even if we don't agree with their reasons. You just never know what is in a patients past that motivates them now.

I take issue with Official limitations put on male caregivers because of the personal insecurities of the policy makers. To tell a male he can't do a cath or can't do certain intimate procedures on a female, or he has to have a female chaperone if he does, is just ridiculous when you consider the fact that female caregivers might be exempt from those rules at the same facility. Sure, you hear the argument that it is for his protection, but I don't think that's the case.

Life would so much easier if everyone was held to the same standards.

It wasn't so long ago that the standards were the same for males and females. Males were not allowed to catherize females and females were not allowed to catherize males. For years the orderlies catherized males. Not everyone, nurse or patient, has yet adapted current attitudes and there will always be that segment of the population who have experienced sexual abuse of one sort or another for whom these experiences will reawaken old nightmares nurses, male or female, should want to avoid reawakening. If you read the newspapers you will know that these nightmares will continue for years to come for some people as it seems the abuse or awareness of it is becoming more prevalent.

i once worked in a facility that had a small [13] snif unit..because of the size of the unit we usually had two nurses and no aides durig the night shift that i was working

i was working with a male nurse who seemed to think ALL womens peri care should be done by female on duty but he never thought of returning the favor because he said that men were use to the idea of women nurses

i put up with it awhile but one night i went into the patients room and told her that he was so upset that she didn't want him taking care of her, she said that he had not asked her if she prefered a female, i went back and got him..bad as a wet hen err rooster

but to original poster yes it is discrimmination and patients should be educated to the facts that nurses are overworked and they need to accept care from what is available

Specializes in nursery, L and D.

On the heavy pt issue, I always hated when my guy CNAs would get heavy loads, then the other CNAs/nurses wouldn't help lift/turn the pts. "You are a big guy, you can do it by yourself". Who knows how many falls, skin tears, and bruises I have had to do incident reports for this kind of thing. So not fair.

Even the strongest person needs help to do things properly. Lifting/turning people is not like lifting boxes. The logistics need to be considered, people are awkward things!

As far as people refusing male nurses/CNAs, if they are going to refuse any male presence that is one thing. But most of these people have male doctors that do their pelvic/prostate/breast exam, and that doesn't seem to bother them. I don't understand the double standard thing.

Specializes in vascular, med surg, home health , rehab,.

I have seen all senarios, have been refused based on my gender (shy guy, cath), on my not being american, because I had red hair once, lol. Because I wouldnt push phenergan fast, because I would give IV narcs as they were getting dressed to go home (drug seeker) and driving themselves right after. Black pts refuse me because Im white and must therefore be racist. It hasn't happened that often, but I have learned not to take it personally. Have also seen the "big guy" get the heaviest pts, which isn't fair, have also seen male staff encourage pts not to have them do things like disimpaction, bedpans etc, and push it to me. So, in fairness, it really has nothing to do with us personally or professionally a lot of the time; sometimes a bit of education can make a differnce, sometimes not. When you deal with the public, particulary a vulnerable,in pain, stressed out, sometimes downright crazy public, it goes with the turf. In the end, if we can deal work it out between us, survive the madness and accept there are always going to be perceptions and issues that are way past out control, its a much better day for all concerned. Just my 2 cts.

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