EEK! There's a MAN in my room!

Nurses General Nursing

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At my facility, some residents have tried to avoid care from employees who are African American as a matter of policy. Usually, they say, "I don't want a [unrepeatable] working with me!" When this happens, they get a looooong talk from management, who explains in no uncertain terms that they *will* be cared for by *whomever* happens to be assigned to them, and if this is unacceptable they are more than welcome to transfer to another facility.

At this same facility, I have some residents who say "I don't want a MAN working with me!" When this happens, the men get a looooong talk from management, who explains in no uncertain terms that residents have *rights* and we will need to juggle assignments and if this is unacceptable they are more than welcome to transfer to another facility.

I don't "get" why we don't tolerate the first form of discrimination but actively embrace the second. I've been told it isn't my problem (I'm female) and maybe I need some sensitivity training (patients' rights) or some Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (belief adjustment).

The traditional definition of discrimination says it can only take place against oppressed groups. It's only about what happens to people in the disempowered classes, like women. The traditional definition addresses groups.

The new definition involves "disparate treatment" or "disparate impact". This is intentionally treating an individual (like a male employee) less favorably than another individual (like a female employee) in the same circumstances. This definition addresses individuals.

I see in nursing education that a male nursing student who is not provided with the opportunity to help female patients is not receiving the same level of education and training as his female peers, and this is unethical. (Bala Shark, https://allnurses.com/forums/f213/instructor-not-letting-me-get-female-patients-during-clincal-138135.html )

In nursing practice, I'm seeing that a male nursing employee (CNA, in my case) is not allowed to work with the 97-pound person who has rights, and seems to end up with the 306 pound person who has C-diff. Looks like "disparate treatment" or "disparate impact" to me.

Is this ... ethical? I feel like I should be doing something, or saying something to somebody, hence this post.

I don't care about men in nursing. If they want to become nurses, fine. If they don't, mazel tov. It doesn't matter to me either way...

What, I have to treat you like my patient now?

Gimme a break.

"And caring, nurturing, gentleness and kindness = nursing, and people think of that as feminine, I am happy."

Is it only your patients you treat with... "caring, nurturing, gentleness and kindness"?

I wonder what St. Paul had in mind when he wrote "...the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control." Galatians 5:22-23.

So if I understand you correctly, the right for the pt to feel comfortable no longer applies? If the pt is in urgent care and has a male RN, and just says "I don't want a male RN, I'm uncomfortable with a male looking at me like that", you're just going to tell her to tough it out?

Hmm! I said that? Hardly.

Specializes in All ICU, TBI, trauma, etc..

Well what happens if it happens to be a male doctor that needs to look in on a female pt? What determines that it is ok for a male doctor to do what is needed but not a male nurse? I worked in L/D for a while with no problems. I have done many foleys on females and again but with rare exception, no problem. I think it is often about being professional. I did have a female say she wanted a female nurse but was told by the charge nurse that the staffing was too tight and could she please work with us. At the end of the day she was very happy and thanked me for the care.

"And caring, nurturing, gentleness and kindness = nursing, and people think of that as feminine, I am happy."

Is it only your patients you treat with... "caring, nurturing, gentleness and kindness"?

I wonder what St. Paul had in mind when he wrote "...the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control." Galatians 5:22-23.

I am not happy with that. Anyone who believes that has not met the majority of men on this planet. For that matter they have not met many women.

Women are not all caring, nurturing, gentle or kind.

What's with the Bibilical quote? It has no bearing on the topic at hand, namely nurses who happen to be men caring for female patients.

Specializes in NICU.

As long as we're quoting St Paul...

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I don't permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner" (I Timothy 2:11-14)
I'm not pointing this out just to start a religious debate or to show I can use Google; I picked this passage very deliberately. THIS is why rape and abuse still happen. Power and control. THIS is why those of us who have lost that control at some point in our lives are so fierce about it now. I'm a nurse, I understand how obnoxious it can be when a patient (or family, in my unit's case) wants to change staffing for a reason I don't think is valid. But when it comes to deciding who gets to touch and enter my body, I don't give a DAMN about staffing. You want to compel or pressure me into a male caregiver? Fine. Make sure you've got a good psych resident on call that night, because you may be calling a consult.

ETA: I'm not literally blaming St Paul for my abuse. I'm referring to the fact that this attitude is still prevalent in our society.

Specializes in LTC, MSP, ICU.
When I'm a little old lady in a nursing home or the hospital, I sure hope I have the right to determine who touches my body. The thought of having no choice in the matter is quite chilling.

AMEN!! I have worked in LTC along side male nurses and aides. They would not take care of a female that was not able to make the decision it was okay for her. I respected this of them. Some people forget that these people who are 70 80 90 years old are from a different era. My little old ladies have probably been seen naked by 3 people: their mothers, husbands and doctor only.

As for racists I have had one who used the n word if he saw a black person on tv. I didnt assign him black nurses or aides but not because of his right to refuse but to keep them from hearing that word.

Specializes in All ICU, TBI, trauma, etc..

And what happens when it is a male doctor??

Specializes in LTC, MSP, ICU.

"But when it comes to deciding who gets to touch and enter my body, I don't give a DAMN about staffing. You want to compel or pressure me into a male caregiver? Fine. Make sure you've got a good psych resident on call that night, because you may be calling a consult."-elizabells

Along with getting orders for restraints, a large dose of haldol and pulling your own head out of your orifice if someone touches me and I dont want them too

:angryfire

Specializes in acute care.

Bottom line, I shouldn't have to explain myself to anyone. No means no. Plain and simple

AMEN!! I have worked in LTC along side male nurses and aides. They would not take care of a female that was not able to make the decision it was okay for her. I respected this of them. Some people forget that these people who are 70 80 90 years old are from a different era. My little old ladies have probably been seen naked by 3 people: their mothers, husbands and doctor only.

As for racists I have had one who used the n word if he saw a black person on tv. I didnt assign him black nurses or aides but not because of his right to refuse but to keep them from hearing that word.

Would the same consideration be made for elderly gentlemen who are not able to decide that it's OK to be cared for by a female nurse or aide? Keep in mind that even the men of that bygone often followed the Christian beliefs and only had one partner for life.

I suspect the answer is probably NO.

I am not happy with that. Anyone who believes that has not met the majority of men on this planet. For that matter they have not met many women.

Women are not all caring, nurturing, gentle or kind.

What's with the Bibilical quote? It has no bearing on the topic at hand, namely nurses who happen to be men caring for female patients.

agnus, I'm not sure you noticed, but his original quote, he was actually quoting someone else's statement. The biblical quote was just to show her where he thought she was going wrong (the fact that she thinks kindness is a feminine trait, but then doesn't treat other people kindly)

Specializes in LTC, MSP, ICU.
Would the same consideration be made for elderly gentlemen who are not able to decide that it's OK to be cared for by a female nurse or aide? Keep in mind that even the men of that bygone often followed the Christian beliefs and only had one partner for life.

I suspect the answer is probably NO.

actually whenever possible I do make the same consideration. If there is a man uncomfortable with females seeing them, then I get them a man if possible if not then I try to talk to them and do what I can. I have even called sons to the ltc in the middle of the night for a man. And they wre all thankful to me for that

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