At my facility, some residents have tried to avoid care from employees who are African American as a matter of policy. Usually, they say, "I don't want a [unrepeatable] working with me!" When this happens, they get a looooong talk from management, who explains in no uncertain terms that they *will* be cared for by *whomever* happens to be assigned to them, and if this is unacceptable they are more than welcome to transfer to another facility.
At this same facility, I have some residents who say "I don't want a MAN working with me!" When this happens, the men get a looooong talk from management, who explains in no uncertain terms that residents have *rights* and we will need to juggle assignments and if this is unacceptable they are more than welcome to transfer to another facility.
I don't "get" why we don't tolerate the first form of discrimination but actively embrace the second. I've been told it isn't my problem (I'm female) and maybe I need some sensitivity training (patients' rights) or some Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (belief adjustment).
The traditional definition of discrimination says it can only take place against oppressed groups. It's only about what happens to people in the disempowered classes, like women. The traditional definition addresses groups.
The new definition involves "disparate treatment" or "disparate impact". This is intentionally treating an individual (like a male employee) less favorably than another individual (like a female employee) in the same circumstances. This definition addresses individuals.
In nursing practice, I'm seeing that a male nursing employee (CNA, in my case) is not allowed to work with the 97-pound person who has rights, and seems to end up with the 306 pound person who has C-diff. Looks like "disparate treatment" or "disparate impact" to me.
Is this ... ethical? I feel like I should be doing something, or saying something to somebody, hence this post.
except i am sickened to hear of such crass vulgarity from my colleagues.
but given the reputation of nsg, and how vicious we are to ea other, it doesn't surprise me.
it is disgusting and unconscionable.
i don't think you can teach a sense of decency.
what that nurse did to you, was incredibly violent and inappropriate.
unless you were groping and being obnoxious (and i know you weren't), her reaction was waaaaay out there.
and finally, i cannot speak for my female colleagues, but i can assure you, when i provide personal care to a male, i never, ever feel casual about it.
rather, i am hypervigilant about another's modesty issues.
thankfully, we're not all like those pig nurses you referred to.
(can you tell i'm upset?)
anyway flyer, i have come to know you as a gentleman w/much integrity.
Flyer, thank you for your thoughtful post. I agree with Leslie's post above. As far as this:
I've have heard it said in medical circles that the one way to stop an erection in a male pt was to inflict some form of pain to the genitals as a reverse stimulus, like "thumping" or "flicking" either the member or testicles...
Maybe it's one of those "they don't teach this in school but try it anyway" kind of things.
In my diploma school, that is precisely what the instructors taught and expected us to do. They even demonstrated the technique on the cath dummy. But as I recently posted on another thread, they were psycho.
I think it's fine for you to disagree - but making fun of the Bible and calling it folk tales isn't going to endear anyone of faith to your argument.
As far as someone not being gentle because they use scripture to make their point -the Bible calls us to speak the truth in love, and admonish one another. Jesus was loving, kind, and patient, and loved everyone including sinners - but he didn't mince words when someone was doing something wrong.
I am not concerned with winning over people of faith. Referring to the Bible as I see it, which is a collection of stories accumulated over time to comfort a tribal people surrounded by enemies , is not disrespectful. I object to being required to pretend acceptance of its sanctity.
Noah was not speaking to me. He was indirectly speaking about me to kmc and using scripture to sneak in criticism while playing holier-than-thou. I object to that self-righteous behavior, as well.
And I know you're trying to help. I appreciate it.
Look, I don't really care what these guys think. I made a simple comment with which they actually agree but then objected to what they perceived as a less-than-delicate delivery. Hey, I come from a big city and I'm direct. I don't have the time or inclination to dance around issues or reality.
Flyer, thank you for your thoughtful post. I agree with Leslie's post above. As far as this:
In my diploma school, that is precisely what the instructors taught and expected us to do. They even demonstrated the technique on the cath dummy. But as I recently posted on another thread, they were psycho.
YIKES!!! Psycho is right! What is scary about this is when you think of how many students were taught to do this and then went out and actually did it. Even if only a small percentage of them did, that can still be a lot of males done this way over time. Even one nurse doing it over the course of a career can add up to a lot.
How many men were affected in a way that kept them from accepting future care? How many ignored symptoms of potential health problems hoping it would go away? I lived with a lump on a testicle for a whole year thinking there was no way I was going to be able to get it treated. I finally did get it checked and it turned out to be benign but what if it had been cancer? I wouldn't be here now. I didn't even carry health insurance offered through my employer for many years because of my determination to stay away from health care. I was bitter.
My mind is spinning with questions. What did these instructors say about what to tell the patient? Were you supposed to warn the patient or just spring it on them? How were you supposed to chart it?
except i am sickened to hear of such crass vulgarity from my colleagues.
but given the reputation of nsg, and how vicious we are to ea other, it doesn't surprise me.
it is disgusting and unconscionable.
i don't think you can teach a sense of decency.
what that nurse did to you, was incredibly violent and inappropriate.
unless you were groping and being obnoxious (and i know you weren't), her reaction was waaaaay out there.
and finally, i cannot speak for my female colleagues, but i can assure you, when i provide personal care to a male, i never, ever feel casual about it.
rather, i am hypervigilant about another's modesty issues.
thankfully, we're not all like those pig nurses you referred to.
(can you tell i'm upset?)
anyway flyer, i have come to know you as a gentleman w/much integrity.
i appreciate your candor and sensitivity.
have a wonderful thanksgiving.
leslie
Thank You Leslie.
No, I wasn't groping or obnoxious, just a scared and embarrassed teenager. Even if I was inappropriate, it doesn't justify permanant injury. As I have told people before, you can't commit a felony to prevent a misdemeanor.
Thanks for the kind words. I respect your integrity as well. I love reading your posts and I value your opinions. Keep it coming.
My mind is spinning with questions. What did these instructors say about what to tell the patient? Were you supposed to warn the patient or just spring it on them? How were you supposed to chart it?
No, we weren't to warn them or chart about it. There were no males in my class, and I'm not aware of any in the classes ahead of me. They hated the idea of male nurses and proclaimed their disdain for men in nursing quite frequently. They didn't like anyone who wasn't a young, unattached, never-married, childless female.
No, we weren't to warn them or chart about it. There were no males in my class, and I'm not aware of any in the classes ahead of me. They hated the idea of male nurses and proclaimed their disdain for men in nursing quite frequently. They didn't like anyone who wasn't a young, unattached, never-married, childless female.
Psycho. I am not exaggerating.
I agree with that. Too bad there were no males in your class. If so, maybe one of them might have spoken up and told those instructors where to go. If and when I get back into nursing school and an instructor were to suggest such a thing, I would try my best to get her gone.
Not charting about it should have been a red flag. You just know right then it's wrong.
Not sure about what you're saying. In my situation, there was no flicking or thumping of anything. Maybe my nurse learned that just flicking the member has no real effect unless one is really good at it, though flicking a testicle will send a man over the headboard. She used a closed fist, maybe a karate chop, I don't know since I was looking the other way.
I see this in school during L&D clinicals. None of the patients will allow a male nursing student near them, but don't have a problem with females. What I'm wondering is why is it okay for them to have a male doctor or med student, but not a male nursing student? Aren't we all professionals here?
When I was in my L&D clinicals I had the same problem on one day when my nurse would go ask the patient if it were alright for me to be in the room. (I don't think that nurse was comfortable with male nurses in L&D) I was never refused though if I had the opportunity to introduce myself to the patient and ask permission. A professional bearing and showing respect to the patient goes a long way.
I work in PACU now and frequently have to check peripads for drainage, insert/dc foleys, check low anterior incisions/bandages, or assist my patients with bedpans. I always explain exactly what needs to be done and am super careful to limit exposure. In 8 months I've only had one patient request a female nurse and I was happy to find one. I have the luxury of plenty of coworkers and can easily find one to help. My female coworkers have also called upon me to help male patients with voiding or catheterization. To me, that's part of patient care. Doing what we can to help put the patient at ease.
Granted, if there were no one else around then the patient would either have to let me do the procedure or refuse it. However, a full bladder can make pretty convincing arguments.
58flyer, I know nothing will ever change what was done to you, and for that I am truly sorry. I will tell you, for what it is worth, that they aren't teaching this any more, or at least not at the school I went to. We were taught to remain professional, withdraw from the room if needed, and give the patient some time to collect himself. If there was no need to specifically deal with the member itself, we were to just continue on with what we were doing and essentially ignore the situation. If it happens, it happens. The only time I really had to directly, um, handle a male appendage in NS was on a paraplegic gentleman, so it never was an issue for me.
Again, I am so sorry for what that nurse did to you, and ashamed that our profession ever taught its nurses to harm a man for a normal, involuntary physical reaction.
I see this in school during L&D clinicals. None of the patients will allow a male nursing student near them, but don't have a problem with females. What I'm wondering is why is it okay for them to have a male doctor or med student, but not a male nursing student? Aren't we all professionals here?
Trust me, they dont like male doctors or male med students either.
On the L&D service, all males are screwed regardless of their position.
leslie :-D
11,191 Posts
dang, flyer, i don't know what to say...
except i am sickened to hear of such crass vulgarity from my colleagues.
but given the reputation of nsg, and how vicious we are to ea other, it doesn't surprise me.
it is disgusting and unconscionable.
i don't think you can teach a sense of decency.
what that nurse did to you, was incredibly violent and inappropriate.
unless you were groping and being obnoxious (and i know you weren't), her reaction was waaaaay out there.
and finally, i cannot speak for my female colleagues, but i can assure you, when i provide personal care to a male, i never, ever feel casual about it.
rather, i am hypervigilant about another's modesty issues.
thankfully, we're not all like those pig nurses you referred to.
(can you tell i'm upset?)
anyway flyer, i have come to know you as a gentleman w/much integrity.
i appreciate your candor and sensitivity.
have a wonderful thanksgiving.
leslie