Dr makes me feel so incompetent?

Kallie3006, ADN · Jul 8, 2018

The first year after nursing school is hard. Accept that it's hard, lean into the discomfort, and don't let anyone make you feel inferior for asking questions and advocating for your patients. Its the new RNs that don't ask questions and/or that are apathetic that really are scary.

This right here.....AMEN!!!

OP, at the end of the day it is your license you are working on and you will be the only one willing to go through h*ll and back to defend it.

mzsuccess · Jul 8, 2018

There are ***hole doctors just like there are ***hole lawyers, cops, accountants, etc.
Some of those doctors show their ***hole-ness when nurses call them because they don't like dealing with that aspect of their job. Apparently.
In the beginning we nurses tend to internalize it as a problem with US, when really it is a symptom of the physician's attitude. Over time, as you realize this, it helps you to be less worried about the attitude you receive when you call. Some ***hole types like to feed on the nervousness/feeling of incompetence that is natural when you're new to your field. It doesn't help that nursing school builds up calls to the doctor like some kind of conversation with God (eyeball roll). The best advice you can get -- and it will be hard to hear right now -- is to let that crap roll off your back.
After you spend some time with physicians that are actually invested in making their hospital/unit succeed, you'll see the difference in how they talk to you. These physicians want to teach the nurses with which they work and will give insight for how to handle similar situations in the future rather than just berating you. After you experience that, you'll no longer give credence to the ***hole physicians' nastiness.
Part of being a new nurse is making more phone calls than is probably necessary. From what you say, this phone call was appropriate. Not all calls are. I was precepting a new RN a couple weeks ago and he had to call a physician 5 times in one day. The initial couple of calls were updates and to get further orders (this is an ICU so things change quickly) but several of the calls were to clarify information that he didn't know to ask for initially ("So, that order for weight-based IV heparin...we have 3 weight-based protocols, which one did you want?" kind of stuff). He felt silly having to do this but it's just part of learning. The physician was kind about it because he knows he will be working side-by-side with this nurse as long as he is in our unit and it doesn't make sense to strain relationships over a few extra phone calls.
The first year after nursing school is hard. Accept that it's hard, lean into the discomfort, and don't let anyone make you feel inferior for asking questions and advocating for your patients. Its the new RNs that don't ask questions and/or that are apathetic that really are scary.

This!!! Thx I so needed to hear this!

FolksBtrippin, BSN, RN · Jul 8, 2018

You did the right thing.

Is it possible the doc was genuinely trying to get info? For example: is it possible "why did you recheck the bp?" Meant "Is there anything else I need to know about this pt? Did you recheck because the pt had new symptoms? Or are you calling because of parameters only?

Was there something I'm missing (eg tone) that made you feel belittled?

It's natural to be insecure when we're new. And when we're insecure we tend to imagine that people are pointing out flaws when they might just be trying to get information.

My advice is to keep doing everything you're doing clinically and to cut yourself and the doc a break. If a doc says something that you perceive to be rude, try saying "I don't understand your question." Give doc a chance to state it a different way before you allow yourself to feel belittled.

My personal experience is that I tend to be direct in my communication with professionals. Once in a while I unintentionally hurt someone's feelings this way.

mzsuccess · Jul 8, 2018

You did the right thing.
Is it possible the doc was genuinely trying to get info? For example: is it possible "why did you recheck the bp?" Meant "Is there anything else I need to know about this pt? Did you recheck because the pt had new symptoms? Or are you calling because of parameters only?
Was there something I'm missing (eg tone) that made you feel belittled?
It's natural to be insecure when we're new. And when we're insecure we tend to imagine that people are pointing out flaws when they might just be trying to get information.
My advice is to keep doing everything you're doing clinically and to cut yourself and the doc a break. If a doc says something that you perceive to be rude, try saying "I don't understand your question." Give doc a chance to state it a different way before you allow yourself to feel belittled.
My personal experience is that I tend to be direct in my communication with professionals. Once in a while I unintentionally hurt someone's feelings this way.

Yes so true it was just the tone/cattiness in her voice like I could literally see her eyes rolling in her head through the phone. But what you're saying is true

TriciaJ, RN · Jul 8, 2018

You did the right thing.
Is it possible the doc was genuinely trying to get info? For example: is it possible "why did you recheck the bp?" Meant "Is there anything else I need to know about this pt? Did you recheck because the pt had new symptoms? Or are you calling because of parameters only?
Was there something I'm missing (eg tone) that made you feel belittled?
It's natural to be insecure when we're new. And when we're insecure we tend to imagine that people are pointing out flaws when they might just be trying to get information.
My advice is to keep doing everything you're doing clinically and to cut yourself and the doc a break. If a doc says something that you perceive to be rude, try saying "I don't understand your question." Give doc a chance to state it a different way before you allow yourself to feel belittled.
My personal experience is that I tend to be direct in my communication with professionals. Once in a while I unintentionally hurt someone's feelings this way.

This is great advice. Always assume every question is simply a request for information and act accordingly. Even when it couldn't sound any snippier or more sarcastic. Stand your ground and answer the question as calmly and factually as you can. Quite often they will change their tune during the same phone call. Or they'll stay rude. Or they'll hang up on you. Their behaviour is their behaviour and you'll still be a calm professional.

It gets easier.

cleback · Jul 8, 2018

You're new.... growing pains are normal. Next time a doc questions your actions ask for clarification. For instance, you could have asked for bp parameters for which she wants to be called. If she's not a complete jerk, she should be more than willing to provide that information. And then you can use it to improve your practice.

And I would have called about that 170/110 bp too, as long as it was an hour after the clonidine. Some docs are reluctant to chase asymptomatic high Bp due to withdrawal. Not entirely sure why though I think it's less responsive to treatment.

I also have worked with docs are plain jerks, though they are fewer and far between. If that's the case, sorry.

Mavrick, BSN, RN · Jul 8, 2018

Yes it was prn but for withdrawals. But I gave it for his bp as well because it was no other orders .

I'm confused. You gave the PRN clonidine for withdrawl symtoms? What were those symptoms? Did the clonipine resolve them?

Anytime we give PRN drugs you have to chart why you gave it and then later to chart if it was effective. You didn't have an order to give clonidine for B/P. You took that upon yourself to administer a drug that wasn't ordered because there were no other orders and are now unprepared to explain to the Dr. why you went rogue.

As far as checking the B/P, that was very wise as the clonipine was not a routine B/P med and you would have no history of how it affects that patient.

mzsuccess · Jul 8, 2018

I'm confused. You gave the PRN clonidine for withdrawl symtoms? What were those symptoms? Did the clonipine resolve them?
Anytime we give PRN drugs you have to chart why you gave it and then later to chart if it was effective. You didn't have an order to give clonidine for B/P. You took that upon yourself to administer a drug that wasn't ordered because there were no other orders and are now unprepared to explain to the Dr. why you went rogue.
As far as checking the B/P, that was very wise as the clonipine was not a routine B/P med and you would have no history of how it affects that patient.

No it was for anxiety. I was giving it for anxiety but also knew it would help his blood pressure so that's why I followed up on his bp.

Yes it was effective for his anxiety

NurseBlaq · Jul 8, 2018

If you have a question or feel something needs to be reported, do it. Don't care how much attitude you get, do it for your license and for your patient's well being. Of course, being new you think everything needs to be reported and that's fine. Once you're comfortable in your practice and learn to recognize and/or anticipate certain things you'll call less. However, I've been doing this a while and I still have questions and call whenever I need clarification or orders for things. Never feel stupid. It's often the nurses who know everything or can't be bothered to call MDs who get into malpractice issues. Nursing is forever changing, and therefore, we're forever learning.

Twinmom06, ASN, APN · Jul 8, 2018

one of my favorite nephrologists always tells me "I'd rather be informed than surprised" when I apologize for calling a few times.

Davey Do · Jul 9, 2018

No one can make us feel any way we don't choose to feel. Sure, feeling bad is an appropriate reaction to being negatively scrutinized, but we need to take responsibility for our feelings.

Giving ourselves bad messages, self-deprecatory remarks like incompetent, stupid, or idiot isn't going to raise our self-confidence or esteem any.

We are sometimes our own worse enemies when we visualize such things as we perceive a tone/cattiness in another's voice like we could literally see her eyes rolling in their head through the phone. It is we who are responsible for congering these images- no one is making us perceive them.

How do we deal with the negative scrutiny of others when we believe we are acting prudently to the best of our ability? One way is to follow a concept taught in the 12 step Emotions Anonymous program:

"My happiness does not depend on what others do or say or what goes on around me. My happiness is a result of being at peace with myself."

If we act prudently, on the the behalf of those we serve, we can be at peace with, or happy with, ourselves. To make another's opinion of who we are more important than the opinion we have of ourselves gives the other power over us. Only then can someone else make us feel a certain way.

The very best to you.

umbdude, MSN, APRN · Jul 9, 2018

Usually when something like this happens, I reflect on my actions, look up information, and think about what I would next time (sometimes I talk to a trusted RN coworker). After that I just move on. Doctors get snarky for a range of reasons. I don't let their attitudes affect how I think about myself.