The way that this Covid vaccine works is quite different from the flu shot. The Covid vax. is not a (dead) bacteria or virus being injected into your body. (With Pfizer & Moderna) RNA (called messenger RNA) that's been coded in a lab goes into your arm. The RNA has instructions, or a code, that gets deposited on the cell. The ribosomes of the cell make a spike protein. It looks similar to the spike protein on the surface of the actual Corona virus. Then your body is supposed to make antibodies (antigens) that goes after the spike protein and neutralize it.
The problem is that this has not been tested in any long-term studies, so, this is more of an experiment. We don't know whether or not the DNA gets permanently changed (possibly bad). We're talking about something that's not supposed to be in your body (made in a lab) that can bind to the surface of your cells and possibly may not be able to be reversed.
Also, since the drug is still being evaluated for long term adverse effects, pregnancy, etc., the FDA would not license the drug, but instead, put out as EUA... Emergency Use Authorization.
It’s not an actual “vaccine”, it’s considered gene therapy.
FDA website defines gene therapy as:
“Human gene therapy seeks to modify or manipulate the expression of a gene or to alter the biological properties of living cells for therapeutic use. Gene therapy is a technique that modifies a person’s genes to treat or cure disease. Gene therapies can work by several mechanisms:
Replacing a disease-causing gene with a healthy copy of the gene
Inactivating a disease-causing gene that is not functioning properly
Introducing a new or modified gene into the body to help treat a disease”
“Two COVID-19 vaccine trials, both of which use messenger RNA (or mRNA) technology to teach the body to fight the virus, have reported efficacy over 90 percent.
These findings, announced by Moderna on Nov. 16 and by Pfizer and its partner BioNTech on Nov. 9 … demonstrate that gene therapy is a viable strategy for developing vaccines to combat COVID-19.
Both vaccine candidates use mRNA to program a person’s cells to produce many copies of a fragment of the virus. The fragment then stimulates the immune system to attack if the real virus tries to invade the body.” —- per society of gene therapy https://www.asgct.org/research/news/November-2020/covid-19-moderna-nih-vaccine
Responding to a question by Moyers on how he came to fund “reproductive issues” Gates answered, “When I was growing up, my parents were always involved in various volunteer things. My dad was head of Planned Parenthood. And it was very controversial to be involved with that. And so it’s fascinating. At the dinner table my parents are very good at sharing the things that they were doing. And almost treating us like adults, talking about that.”
Is his son making this up? He must be because you clearly know more than him in this regard.
Check. Mate.
He was the "head" of a local PP charitable organization, in that aspect you're correct, he was not the "head of all of planned parenthood" much less the mastermind of a plan to introduce a pandemic vaccine that actually killed the entire population rather than preventing infection, as you're suggesting.
Again, what are you suggesting the relevance is of your claim to Covid-19?, because it would appear what you're suggesting is that Gates is only promoting the vaccine to trick people into taking a vaccine which is designed to kill them. In which case, again, you're an absolutely horrible person for spreading that false conspiracy theory since if people actually listen to you, people will die unecessarily.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
17 hours ago, Jack Peace said:
You are free to not participate in this discussion. But wishing this thread would get shut down is not the answer. Don't cancel our speech.
Bwahahaha
You have no right to expect that you will be allowed to spread misinformation about a dangerous pandemic or misinformation about the vaccines to help us end it, on a nursing discussion board. That's some privileged thinking...to assume a right to publish junk science on a nursing discussion board.
One can peddle psuedoscience trash anywhere on the Internet with much less push back than can be peddled here. Whining about your covid nonsense getting "cancelled" is just funny.
It’s not an actual “vaccine”, it’s considered gene therapy.
FDA website defines gene therapy as:
“Human gene therapy seeks to modify or manipulate the expression of a gene or to alter the biological properties of living cells for therapeutic use. Gene therapy is a technique that modifies a person’s genes to treat or cure disease. Gene therapies can work by several mechanisms:
Replacing a disease-causing gene with a healthy copy of the gene
Inactivating a disease-causing gene that is not functioning properly
Introducing a new or modified gene into the body to help treat a disease”
“Two COVID-19 vaccine trials, both of which use messenger RNA (or mRNA) technology to teach the body to fight the virus, have reported efficacy over 90 percent.
These findings, announced by Moderna on Nov. 16 and by Pfizer and its partner BioNTech on Nov. 9 … demonstrate that gene therapy is a viable strategy for developing vaccines to combat COVID-19.
Both vaccine candidates use mRNA to program a person’s cells to produce many copies of a fragment of the virus. The fragment then stimulates the immune system to attack if the real virus tries to invade the body.” —- per society of gene therapy https://www.asgct.org/research/news/November-2020/covid-19-moderna-nih-vaccine
It’s not an actual “vaccine”, it’s considered gene therapy.
12 hours ago, Jack Peace said:
Bingo, you are correct.
You sound like you think you’ve made a salient point of some kind, like you think there is a noteworthy distinction. The mRNA vaccines are vaccines.
The CDC definition of a vaccine is ”a product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease”. That is what the mRNA vaccines are and do.
There have always been people who fear new inventions and new technologies. Back in the day there were people who thought that the telegraph and the telephone were instruments of the Devil...
I personally celebrate scientific progress. I think we’ll be able to cure diseases in the future that we are unable to cure today. And to me, that’s a good thing.
I find this mRNA vaccine scaremongering rather annoying. Why is it that posters who express doubts about them never say that they’ll get a viral vector one instead or wait for a protein-based vaccine to become approved and take that one? I suspect it’s because it’s not really mRNA technology they are wary of, but rather that they are simply anti-vaccine. No matter what kind.
Y’all actually thought you said something smart- please just stop ?
On 3/20/2021 at 2:41 AM, toomuchbaloney said:
Bwahahaha
You have no right to expect that you will be allowed to spread misinformation about a dangerous pandemic or misinformation about the vaccines to help us end it, on a nursing discussion board. That's some privileged thinking...to assume a right to publish junk science on a nursing discussion board.
One can peddle psuedoscience trash anywhere on the Internet with much less push back than can be peddled here. Whining about your covid nonsense getting "cancelled" is just funny.
It’s always the folks who peddle BS and then get called out for it who end up trying to victimize themselves instead of admitting they’re wrong and learning for the experience- ay caramba
Oyy, Jacko, you are going to find in the future that most medicines and therapies will center around some form of gene modification. If it isn't corrected at an early age through defective gene makeup, then medications will have to match the makeup of the individual. It's actually done now by pharmaceutical companies re the regulations from China and Japan who want studies specific to their people before approval is granted.
Some cancer therapies are exactly that now. These vaccines however are a product of previous research, just modified.
You are going to find Crisper applications everywhere, eventually! It's simple and effective! The kinks have to be worked out though, because the implications are horrific!
You sound like you think you’ve made a salient point of some kind, like you think there is a noteworthy distinction. The mRNA vaccines are vaccines.
The CDC definition of a vaccine is ”a product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease”. That is what the mRNA vaccines are and do.
There have always been people who fear new inventions and new technologies. Back in the day there were people who thought that the telegraph and the telephone were instruments of the Devil...
I personally celebrate scientific progress. I think we’ll be able to cure diseases in the future that we are unable to cure today. And to me, that’s a good thing.
I find this mRNA vaccine scaremongering rather annoying. Why is it that posters who express doubts about them never say that they’ll get a viral vector one instead or wait for a protein-based vaccine to become approved and take that one? I suspect it’s because it’s not really mRNA technology they are wary of, but rather that they are simply anti-vaccine. No matter what kind.
No mRNA is gene therapy and does not meet the criteria for a vaccine because
1) mRNA does not impart immunity. Moderna and Pfizer admit in their clinical trials aren’t even looking at immunity. As such they do not fulfill the medical definition of a vaccine.
2) They do not inhibit transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 infection. As such they do not fulfill the medical definition of a vaccine.
I brought this up because without getting into details a few years ago something happened... I then realized we are doing a disservice to our patients when we don’t offer proper informed consent in research and also yes the proper terms and words.
Also If you are talking about the viral vector vaccines you should be saying “a candidate for a vaccine”. This is the proper terminology since legally they are not approved by the FDA.
MedlinePlus.gov states gene therapy:
“Gene therapy is an experimental technique that uses genes to treat or prevent disease Researchers are testing several approaches to gene therapy, including: … Introducing a new gene into the body to help fight a disease
Although gene therapy is a promising treatment option for a number of diseases (including inherited disorders, some types of cancer, and certain viral infections), the technique remains risky and is still under study to make sure that it will be safe and effective. Gene therapy is currently being tested only for diseases that have no other cures.”
Y'all aren't telling your patients the Pfizer and/or Moderna gene therapies are vaccines, are you? Perhaps reconsider what you are actually informing your patients about.
Seriously, are the two of you kidding me? It’s hard to know if you are simply trolling us or if you actually believe the things you write?
11 hours ago, mdcp said:
No mRNA is gene therapy and does not meet the criteria for a vaccine because
1) mRNA does not impart immunity. Moderna and Pfizer admit in their clinical trials aren’t even looking at immunity. As such they do not fulfill the medical definition of a vaccine.
2) They do not inhibit transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 infection. As such they do not fulfill the medical definition of a vaccine.
Not all vaccines prevent infection (also known as sterilizing immunity), but instead prevent disease (to a varying degree). Pretty much everyone agrees that they are vaccines, apart from you and Jack it seems. The FDA, Johns Hopkins, New England Journal of Medicine, Nature, the CDC and the WHO all identify the mRNA vaccines as vaccines.
“Two COVID-19 vaccine trials, both of which use messenger RNA (or mRNA) technology to teach the body to fight the virus, have reported efficacy over 90 percent.”
I bolded the word... but don’t you see that even the sources you provided know that mRNA vaccines are vaccines?
Also, judging by your most recent post I think you need to read up on ClinicalEndpoints for evaluating efficacy in trials and StatisticalPower.
11 hours ago, mdcp said:
Also If you are talking about the viral vector vaccines you should be saying “a candidate for a vaccine”. This is the proper terminology since legally they are not approved by the FDA.
I’m European.
So would you take a Covid vaccine candidate (either viral vector or protein-based) if they are or become available to you?
10 hours ago, Jack Peace said:
Y'all aren't telling your patients the Pfizer and/or Moderna gene therapies are vaccines, are you? Perhaps reconsider what you are actually informing your patients about.
I’ve never had a reason to administer a Covid-19 vaccine to one of my trauma patients as they’re having surgery... but if I ever were to administer one.. ofcourse I’d tell them that it was a vaccine.
Oh and Jack, how do you feel about getting a non-mRNA Covid-19 vaccine (candidate or approved). Are you generally in favor of vaccines as a method to save human lives?
Since it appears that a few posters are very interested in gene therapy, here’s a bonus link to read for anyone who wishes to learn more about how the meaning of the word ”gene” has evolved over time..
mdcp
60 Posts
It’s not an actual “vaccine”, it’s considered gene therapy.
FDA website defines gene therapy as:
“Human gene therapy seeks to modify or manipulate the expression of a gene or to alter the biological properties of living cells for therapeutic use. Gene therapy is a technique that modifies a person’s genes to treat or cure disease. Gene therapies can work by several mechanisms:
Replacing a disease-causing gene with a healthy copy of the gene
Inactivating a disease-causing gene that is not functioning properly
Introducing a new or modified gene into the body to help treat a disease”
“Two COVID-19 vaccine trials, both of which use messenger RNA (or mRNA) technology to teach the body to fight the virus, have reported efficacy over 90 percent.
These findings, announced by Moderna on Nov. 16 and by Pfizer and its partner BioNTech on Nov. 9 … demonstrate that gene therapy is a viable strategy for developing vaccines to combat COVID-19.
Both vaccine candidates use mRNA to program a person’s cells to produce many copies of a fragment of the virus. The fragment then stimulates the immune system to attack if the real virus tries to invade the body.” —- per society of gene therapy https://www.asgct.org/research/news/November-2020/covid-19-moderna-nih-vaccine