The way that this Covid vaccine works is quite different from the flu shot. The Covid vax. is not a (dead) bacteria or virus being injected into your body. (With Pfizer & Moderna) RNA (called messenger RNA) that's been coded in a lab goes into your arm. The RNA has instructions, or a code, that gets deposited on the cell. The ribosomes of the cell make a spike protein. It looks similar to the spike protein on the surface of the actual Corona virus. Then your body is supposed to make antibodies (antigens) that goes after the spike protein and neutralize it.
The problem is that this has not been tested in any long-term studies, so, this is more of an experiment. We don't know whether or not the DNA gets permanently changed (possibly bad). We're talking about something that's not supposed to be in your body (made in a lab) that can bind to the surface of your cells and possibly may not be able to be reversed.
Also, since the drug is still being evaluated for long term adverse effects, pregnancy, etc., the FDA would not license the drug, but instead, put out as EUA... Emergency Use Authorization.
I don’t see healthy people dying from Covid. The statistics don’t support that claim. People can sit on here and give individual anecdotes all day long, but those individual stories do not paint the larger picture, which is that healthy individuals are not dying from Covid.
So, I’d disagree, and say that the statistics do support exercise and diet and sleep providing protection against Covid. Again, because the people who do those things, aren’t dying from the virus.
Unfortunately, a large portion of Americans are over the age of 65, and have multiple chronic diseases. Which is a caused by a combination of lack of personal responsibility for ones health, and the government choosing profit over public health
The chances of dying from Covid, and pretty much every other disease, illness, and health condition, increase with age and concomitant health issues. I'm not sure what you point is but it really seems to be that we shouldn't put too much effort in preventing deaths in these populations.
What you seem to be saying is that there haven't been a catastrophic number of deaths so we don't really need mitigation measures (which have prevented the number of deaths from being catastrophic).
It's like if you told a skydiver they don't really need to wear a parachute because skydiving deaths are pretty rare.
It doesn't matter what any of these people say, don't even get your bp elevated going back and forth here.It is a fact that hospitals receive more reimbursement for people diagnosed with covid. It is a fact. You can have a 94 year old pt with a severe g.I. bleed, sitting with a hgb of 3, and if they happen to test positive for covid during that particular hospital stay, even with no covid symptoms, and they expire..oh it was covid. Let's add it to the roster. There is ample opportunity for facilties to take advantage of financial gain here. There was (for all the people bashing Trump) absolutely a plenty of political gain with this virus. Let the chips fall where they may. They can say we're incompetent, apathetic, ignorant. Whatever. I say follow as you choose, if you want to be a sheep, be a sheep. But don't jump down my throat about your beliefs. I got your back, and it truly is comforting to find a kindred✊
The additional costs to a hospital and therefore the reimbursement bump are related to the patient being Covid positive, not whether their death was due to Covid, and these bumped reimbursements don't typically cover the additional costs of caring for a patient as a Covid patient, so there really isn't any incentive their for a hospital to falsify a test result.
But regarding your example, a very unique and identifiable form of DIC occurs in Covid patients, and the ultimate fatal complication is often uncontrollable GI bleeding, in which case yes, their death should be documented as a Covid death despite your apparent desire to falsify the statistics to make it appear less common or severe than it is.
Shelby, don't worry, because when I read these sheeps' posts I too believe they have some form of schizophrenia. Do you see how he just turned your point around back at you and tries to say that you are the one committing medical fraud not the hospitals for covid diagnoses?!? they can spin it whatever way they want but for people who live in the real world who are open-minded and inform themselves of the legislation that has been passed concerning covid but also talk to as many people as they can and ask them questions about their experiences as well to enable an understanding of what's really going on in reality.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
1 hour ago, Shelby91 said:
Ummm, hold up. So I practice self sustenance on my land, as do many of my family members, we grow our own crops, we raise our own livestock..So, I really don't have make those choices at the "grocer", LOL like who even uses that terminology... Anyway though, as I said before, unless you have concrete evidence regarding long term effects then don't ding my notifications. If you can't come with that info than don't come at all.
Give us some reason to fear long term ill effects from these vaccines. Share the facts which drive your anxiety. Surely your concern is based upon facts, evidence, data, observation...something that is more compelling than a pandemic.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
13 minutes ago, Jack Peace said:
Shelby, don't worry, because when I read these sheeps' posts I too believe they have some form of schizophrenia. Do you see how he just turned your point around back at you and tries to say that you are the one committing medical fraud not the hospitals for covid diagnoses?!? they can spin it whatever way they want but for people who live in the real world who are open-minded and inform themselves of the legislation that has been passed concerning covid but also talk to as many people as they can and ask them questions about their experiences as well to enable an understanding of what's really going on in reality.
Holy hell.
Talk about spin.
You are representing opinion which is contradictory to the preponderance of the scientific opinion, evidence and public health recommendations while claiming others are not understanding reality. I love the fraud reference thrown in, it's so predictable. Where else do you fear widespread fraud?
Would you prefer that I talked about you rather than to you in this thread? It would probably be better if you'd just stick to trying to defend your bad science on this topic of covid vaccines.
Specializes in Pediatrics, Pediatric Float, PICU, NICU.
5 hours ago, Shelby91 said:
It's funny you didn't hear jack about the flu this year right? Naw. y'all didn't pay attention to that, you're hyperfocused on exactly what they want you to be concentrated on.
What?! That’s because of, well, science. Masks, social distancing, better hand hygiene, less contact = less flu cases. This isn’t some voodoo magic conspiracy theory, it’s literally the science and practices that people have been preaching for years upon years upon years to prevent spread of ANY contagious illness.
3 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:
Holy hell.
Talk about spin.
You are representing opinion which is contradictory to the preponderance of the scientific opinion, evidence and public health recommendations while claiming others are not understanding reality. I love the fraud reference thrown in, it's so predictable. Where else do you fear widespread fraud?
Would you prefer that I talked about you rather than to you in this thread? It would probably be better if you'd just stick to trying to defend your bad science on this topic of covid vaccines.
Jack reminds me of that poster we had a few months into the pandemic from Texas with a Pence avatar who would come on here spewing similar ridiculousness. I think he may have gotten banned but am now wondering if he found a loophole...
I get a little frustrated with the idea that because the death rate is so low that we are over reacting over covid. Hospitals, nurses and doctors overwhelmed with patients running out of beds, making decisions which of three critical care patients gets one bed, practically getting on their hands and knees begging people to be careful and mitigate this disease, working many hours, experiencing PTSD, apparently means nothing to them.
Many health care decisions are based on a risk vs. benefits scenario. Unfortunately, as was mentioned, as with any new treatment roll out there is going to be some untoward and even fatal side effects. Certainly, we don't have the luxury of knowing what the long term side effects are going to be. Many drugs after rolling out are then rolled back in after more people take it and side effects and long term effectives become apparent.
But having a vaccinated society with herd immunity and not overwhelming the health care system and workers, not to mention the toll on families and patients, seems to be worth the risks. We just can't do nothing and we can't continue to lock down with every outbreak such as we're seeing in Europe, particularly Italy. (I live in Florida and we haven't locked down since last May, but we've certainly felt the destruction of Covid.)
I certainly respect everyone's right to refuse the vaccination for whatever reason. It shouldn't be forced.
I love watching these conspiracy theories develop and mutate (almost like a virus). We had Bill Gates putting chips in people, then he was banned from multiple countries (still waiting for someone to tell me which countries) then we moved to gene manipulation, (or was it therapy? I forget). NOW the theory du jure is hospitals making money from covid diagnosis.
So, assuming you are correct and hospitals and doctors are making shedloads of money by falsely diagnosing covid, what happens in the rest of the world? In most of the world health care is not so much a business and doctors and hospitals DO NOT get paid for making weird and wonderful diagnoses. They get their salary regardless so have no interest or reason to up the stats.
Also, for information. In UK and other countries death certificates are legal documents which have several different parts on them and require a signature from a doctor. I do not know ANY doctor who would put his registration and livelihood at risk for a stupid diagnosis.
I do not know ANY doctor who would put his registration and livelihood at risk for a stupid diagnosis.
It doesn't make sense that people are falsely claiming deaths by covid to make money. The US alone has had 543,000 deaths. This would mean a coordinated effort by thousands of doctors in all parts of the country scamming the system. How is that possible?
Also people confuse co-morbidities with cause of death. Someone with heart failure catches covid and dies. They think the cause of death should be listed as heart failure and not covid.
It's pretty appalling that people continue downplay the mention of long term effects from this vaccine. Nobody knows, not scientists, not us. There is no way to know until the subject can be discussed in retrospect. Science can't fast forward to the future. This is a gamble, a roll of the dice. I got off this thread the other day because I grew tired of being insulted, and found my arguments to be futile here. Someone mentioned common sense somewhere along this thread. I can't understand why it's so hard to see the fact that without long term studies, there is no true data to determine long term effects. Ray Charles could see that.?♀️
I think you’ve misinterpreted what many posters have said. No one is downplaying side effects. What we’re doing is taking a logical approach, as opposed to an emotional one, when doing our risk vs benefit analysis.
I asked you in a previous post if you knew of any vaccine where serious side effects take years to show up. You couldn’t name a single one. Neither can I. So the logical question to ask here is whether you have any fact-based reason to assume that things will be dramatically different for Covid vaccines. Please keep in mind that there are different types of vaccines available and more are in the pipeline.
Then you need to ask yourself about what we know right now about the risks involved when being infected with SARS-CoV-2 virus. Both mortality and longterm (?) sequelae. Also about what risk further spread of the virus in the population would have on healthcare systems and society in general?
Human beings are generally quite poor at estimating their own risk and often find it even more challenging when they try to understand large numbers involving population-sized risks and then attempting to translate that to personal risk.
Do you drive a car? Ever ride a bike or walk anywhere near motor vehicles? Like for example the parking lot at your local grocery store? For the average American the lifetime risk of death due to a motor vehicle accident is 0.92%. That means that 1 out of every 109 Americans will die from a motor vehicle accident.
One out of 109 is the average risk for an American but the risk varies in different states. You’ll have to fact-check my numbers and states because I’m tired after a long day at work. But it seems that the five safest states when it comes to the risk of dying of a motor vehicle accident are New York, Massachusetts, District of Colombia, Rhode Island and New Jersey with 1 death for every 238, 227, 217, 204 and 189 persons.
The five states where you should perhaps consider ditching your car and only go for leisurely walks through a suitable forest are Mississippi, Alabama, South Carolina, New Mexico and South Dakota where a whopping 1 out of every 57, 62, 65, 70 and 71 persons respectively will die from a motor vehicle accident if current death rates persist.
Did you try to ascertain your lifetime risk of being killed in a vehicular accident before you made the decision to get a driver’s license and drive on a regular basis? (Assuming you have and do).
Do you have a realistic understanding of what your personal risk is if you would become sick with Covid-19? How about the risk of the people you come in contact with? Like for example your family and friends?
Do you have any fact-based reason to suspect that mortality rates from a Covid vaccine could come anywhere close to that of a Covid-19 infection, much less the risk involved in driving or being a passenger in a car?
Your CFR is currently 1.8%. If I was forced to make a guess the IFR might be something like 0.5% to 1% .. ? No vaccine has ever been anywhere near those numbers.
I’m not pretending to have the ability to predict the future. But I am pretty good at making logical and rational decisions.
Jack Peace
97 Posts
Shelby, hold the line! You are on target! Nice work! We are The Science.