Doctoral degree to become an NP???

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The American Association of Colleges of Nursing (AACN) is calling for the requirement of doctorate in nursing for advanced practice nurses, such as nurse practitioners, nurse midwives, clinical nurse specialists, and nurse anesthetists. This new degree will be called a Doctor of Nursing Practice and, if the AACN has its way, will become the entry level for advanced nursing practice.

AACN Position Statement on the Practice Doctorate in Nursing

the bs theory stuff has zero applicability to patient management except as a bedside rn. np's need real world patient management education. how can you say that understanding nursing theory has given nps independent practice? the only thing that has given us independent practice is the aggressive lobbying. as a np, i don't even agree with our independent practice rights! we should have to have a sp just like the pa's do and they have significantly more education, didactic, than nps do.!

if you want a sp i don't have a problem, you should have one. please don't tell the rest of us who prefer a collaborative practice that we need to change to a sp. i have been practicing "independently" for nearly 25 years. i am not ready fro a sp.

the vast majority of dnp programs have "a" class on theory. unsure how theory has no application except as a bedside rn. for example, pender's health promotion theory has tremendous application in ambulatory care (and others). precede/proceed has significant implications in nicotine dependence.

i also disagree with your premise that pas have significantly more education than nps. are you denying the validity of undergraduate nursing education? should you not add the undergraduate educational process to the graduate process to attain a more complete picture? thus, on one hand we don't need the dnp (too much education), on the other hand we don't have as much as the pa and we need to be supervised.

please acknowledge the np profession as made significant strides and for the most part does a really good job in the provision of healthcare. they recognized some need for change and are moving towards that change with the desire to improve healthcare. as they say, we should be part of the solution not the problem.

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The BS theory stuff has ZERO applicability to patient management except as a bedside RN. NP's need real world patient management education. How can you say that understanding nursing theory has given Nps independent practice? The ONLY thing that has given us independent practice is the aggressive lobbying. As a Np, I don't even agree with our independent practice rights! We should have to have a SP just like the PA's do and they have significantly more education, didactic, than Nps do.!

You really shouldn't touch a patient unless you have a theoretical framework to guide you.

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Specializes in ER; CCT.
The BS theory stuff has ZERO applicability to patient management except as a bedside RN. NP's need real world patient management education.

Really? Perhaps you should revisit the writings of Levine, Rogers, Orem, Neuman, Roy and Porifice, to name a few. These individuals have provided a framework that not only guides practice, but directs ALL forms of nursing care--from basic to advanced. I think it is quite frightening for any nurse to provide care without having a form of nursing reference by which to inform what he or she is doing.

How can you say that understanding nursing theory has given Nps independent practice? The ONLY thing that has given us independent practice is the aggressive lobbying.

So all it takes is aggressive lobbying? Why, then, do NP's have any form of indpendence at all when you compare the lobby power of the AMA and state medical associations as compared to nursing? Are nursing lobbiests more powerfull now than the AMA, which takes every opportunity to quash NP advancement?

As a Np, I don't even agree with our independent practice rights! We should have to have a SP just like the PA's do and they have significantly more education, didactic, than Nps do.!

Good for you. You can call yourself a medical technican assistant of the physican. For most of us, however, we see advanced practice nursing as a bit more than following rules promulagated by individuals outside of the nursing profession. We, thankfully in the vast majority, understand such protocols are nothing more than instruments that provide barriers to practice and barriers for consumer access to quality health care.

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Specializes in Vents, Telemetry, Home Care, Home infusion.

does anyone know what schools offer this program now?

-kate

see [color=#2200cc]aacn - dnp program list for listing universities currently accepting students into doctor of nursing practice programs

add la salle university to the list; their course progression appears to add good balance between advanced coursework and theoretical concepts with 500 additional clinical hours ( must have 500 hrs with msn = 1,000 total clinical time.) to improve and strengthen managing patient care and office environment/independent practice.

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You can call yourself a medical technican assistant of the physican. For most of us, however, we see advanced practice nursing as a bit more than following rules promulagated by individuals outside of the nursing profession.

And I also hope that APNs also see PAs as doing a bit more than "following rules promulagated" by physician supervisors! Anyway, back to NP education...

Nursing theories, holistic care, health promotion, patient education, non-medical intervention, etc should already have been covered in one's BSN program. In fact, all prior nursing training made a point that nurses need to AVOID diagnosing medical conditions and prescribing medical treatments. Shouldn't NP training then be about preparing the students to EXPAND their practice to include those activies, as opposed to deepening understanding of nursing theories or priniciples of health promotion or of research statistics? NP programs should still make sure students are up-to-date in these areas, but not experts.

On the other hand, an NP student probably hasn't had any formal training in following patients as part of the medical team, diagnosing medical conditions, prescribing medical treatments, etc. That means more pathophys, more pharmacology, and more hands-on clinical practice to build competencies in those skills required to expand their nursing practice to include NP practice. While some NP students come into the program already knowing their field backwards and forwards (eg can already outperform their physician colleagues and just need the official stamp to prove it), many must have a curriculum that assumes no prior experience in that area.

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Really? Perhaps you should revisit the writings of Levine, Rogers, Orem, Neuman, Roy and Porifice, to name a few. These individuals have provided a framework that not only guides practice, but directs ALL forms of nursing care--from basic to advanced. I think it is quite frightening for any nurse to provide care without having a form of nursing reference by which to inform what he or she is doing.

So all it takes is aggressive lobbying? Why, then, do NP's have any form of indpendence at all when you compare the lobby power of the AMA and state medical associations as compared to nursing? Are nursing lobbiests more powerfull now than the AMA, which takes every opportunity to quash NP advancement?

Good for you. You can call yourself a medical technican assistant of the physican. For most of us, however, we see advanced practice nursing as a bit more than following rules promulagated by individuals outside of the nursing profession. We, thankfully in the vast majority, understand such protocols are nothing more than instruments that provide barriers to practice and barriers for consumer access to quality health care.

It's my opinion.:loveya:

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Nursing theories, holistic care, health promotion, patient education, non-medical intervention, etc should already have been covered in one's BSN program.

That's obviously not the case with the kazillion "direct entry" NP programs for non-nurses.

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That's obviously not the case with the kazillion "direct entry" NP programs for non-nurses.

They still cover the BSN curriculum in 12-15 months before starting the MSN programs, so no different than doing a 2nd degree accelerated BSN then entering into a MSN program.

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Specializes in ER; CCT.
Nursing theories, holistic care, health promotion, patient education, non-medical intervention, etc should already have been covered in one's BSN program.

What some fail to understand, and the AMA proponents hope to continue, is that when nursing theory guides, directs and informs nursing practice, then interventions performed are not medical interventions at all--but nursing interventions guided and directed by nursing theory. This is why it is so crucial for all nurses-basic and advance to have a nursing framework to guide practice. Also noteworthy is that medicine nor physicians own the title or name of functions such as prescribing medications or performing surgical procedures.

Until Nurse Practitioners come together on a consensus that NP practice is a nursing-based profession and not a medical-based profession (owned only by physicians) and claim true ownership over our profession, then NP's will continue to be marginalized as nothing more than medical assistants/med techs/physician flunkies/etc.-- relegated to the tasks handed down by physicians.

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Specializes in ICU/Critical Care.

I'm sorry but I think the whole DNP thing is a crock. If I am going to spend $20k on higher education in order to receive my DNP then I should be paid as such. I'm hearing that having a DNP will only add $5K to the holder's salary. If that's the case, then I refuse to further my education beyond my BSN.

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This is ridiculous! I have been through a PNP program and its nowhere near what a physician goes through in their schooling. This doesn't make them dangers to society, but it doesn't make them equal to a physician either. Some of us NP's are humble enough to admit it, but others of us are too into their new title of Dr to see reality.

The fact is that the DNp is a sham degree that hopefully will NOT become the standard. Hwen it has the necessary advanced sciences and significant amount of clinical hours then you can talk about how much the degree will add to NP practice. Until then, it will be seen as nothing more than a glorfied PhD.

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Until then, it will be seen as nothing more than a glorfied PhD.

A "glorified PhD"? A DNP isn't anywhere close to being a PhD. The PhD is the terminal degree in any field or discipline, awarded by the university as a whole (not an individual department, as other doctoral degrees, like the DNP, are), and the standards for a PhD are standardized across universities and across the world (again, unlike the DNP). Everyone understands what a PhD is and what the person had to do to earn it, which can certainly not be said for the DNP. The DNP is what my professors in grad school used to refer to as a "quick 'n dirty" doctorate. A more accurate description would be "a glorified Master's" (which is exactly what the DNP programs are -- an MSN program with a few extra courses and delusions of grandeur :)).

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