Doctoral degree to become an NP???

Published

The American Association of Colleges of Nursing (AACN) is calling for the requirement of doctorate in nursing for advanced practice nurses, such as nurse practitioners, nurse midwives, clinical nurse specialists, and nurse anesthetists. This new degree will be called a Doctor of Nursing Practice and, if the AACN has its way, will become the entry level for advanced nursing practice.

AACN Position Statement on the Practice Doctorate in Nursing

Personally, I found that I learn best by hands on work. I also learned that my pathophysiology, pharmacology, and disease management courses were much easier due to a base knowledge of chemistry, organic chemistry, and biochemistry.

When I worked as a tech at a hospital, I reviewed and researched every patient I took care of. I looked up their dx, their medical history, their home meds, and the meds they were on in the hospital. I tried to come up with a reason for each and every one of them. Without my extensive science background, I can't imagine trying to understand any of that and I'd think any nurse (RNs included) should be able to fully understand the reasoning behind every med they administer and prescribe (for NPs).

You can read, research, write, and regurgitate things as many times as you want, but until you physically do it over and over again, you don't fully understand it. That is why I think clinicals are so valuable. PA students get at least 2,000 clinical hours practicing being a mid-level practitioner (and have enough electives to "specialize" like NPs do in a MSN program). Doctors get at least 5,000 hours plus a 3-8 year residency. NPs get only 1,000 post-BSN. Why so low? Why not double that in a DNP program? Or add more to the MSN? I can't imagine a better learning environment than getting out there and doing it.

What is the harm in studying more advanced anatomy, physiology, pharmacology, genetics, biochemistry, immunology, embryology, microbiology, pathology, etc. Students may not need all these, but they can be related to the chosen area of practice of the student.

Maybe so many people bash nursing programs because they are REALLY bad at titling and describing their coursework. If you look at most undergraduate and graduate nursing programs, they look like a joke. If you talk to a student and find out what the courses REALLY entail, it is the exact opposite. I once found out that a class entitled "Thinking in Nursing" (which sounds laughable to the general public) actually included a good number of advanced science courses integrated into learning about neonates as well as an intensive lab course. Perhaps if the course titles and describes better related to the actual coursework, people would understand that the classes/degrees aren't actually a joke as they appear on the surface.

And I don't switch between PA/NP daily like I'm lost and clueless. I love trauma/EM and PAs are better trained for that particular role. I prefer the science/medical school type curriculum of being rooted in science instead of theory. However, PA school involves giving up your social life, family life, and income for 2-2.5 years. When I'm ready to apply, that might not be feasible and that fact forced me to look at other options. The more I talk to advanced nurses, the more I'm learning that it isn't as much of a crock as I once thought and it is a much more feasible degree to get, as the programs are designed for working nurses and can even be done part-time. I've also encounted a fair amount of NPs who think the DNP degree will make their equal to a doctor and ready to be the family physician. If you want to be THE family physician, why not just go to medical school? And while a DNP graduate can be "Dr. XxXX" I think it is wrong to refer to themselves as that in clinical practice unless a patient is made VERY aware that they are NPs, not MDs. Society today has labeled Doctor as equal to Physician.

I just have ZERO interest in doing any research or management type roles. I want to stick strictly to taking are of patients and from the looks of a lot of the dnp programs, they will bore me to death with some of that curriculum in there...

Up Vote Up Vote ×
your scholarly project may have been very difficult, but it doesn't replace the need for advanced physiology, pharmacology, patient management, pathophysiology, gross anatomy, etc. these are the courses needed for ongoing patient management. what i am saying is that a terminal degree for advanced practice nurses should include that type of information. just as md students first have basic sciences prior to med school and then advanced courses for the next 3-4 yrs plus. the courses that we took prior to and in nursing school are not graduate level sciences, and there is a significant distinction.

never suggested replacement, rather integration of the knowledge from those courses into a scholarly endeavor. the dnp completion programs builds on those courses, allowing students to attain a higher level of inquiry into a specific area. for example, a pnp returns for a dnp and wants to focus on pediatric obesity. the student can design the dnp curriculum to enhance understanding in much greater depth than would be allowed in a general pnp program. the student would need to complete an in depth review of the literature in order to understand the implications. the student may design an intervention (methodology) to reduce obesity, followed by analysis of the data, reporting the findings, and finally discuss implications in the practice of treating pediatric obesity. if the pnp for some reason didn't have all of the basic (advanced ) sciences, they should add to their plan of study, if they already have they can seek other cognates to enhance the scholarly project

Up Vote Up Vote ×

It's hard to integrate science courses that you haven't taken. I understand the integration of of what is already learned, but NPs DO NOT get the advanced courses needed to do exactly what the DNP was created for and that's a terminal degree for APNs who are in clinical practice.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

My interests are in trauma/EM. I plan to become an ACNP and later go back and get my pediatric acute care NP license as well so I can work in a Level I Trauma Center and treat patients of all ages. What would I focus my DNP on if my goals were to truly save lives in the trauma bay?

Up Vote Up Vote ×
my interests are in trauma/em. i plan to become an acnp and later go back and get my pediatric acute care np license as well so i can work in a level i trauma center and treat patients of all ages. what would i focus my dnp on if my goals were to truly save lives in the trauma bay?[/quote]

please tell me your joking???? you can't think of a cognate that would enhance your ability to "save lives". you can't think of a scholarly project that would influence care of patients in the ed? try watching reruns of er or gray's anatomy to discover areas that need analysis or improvement in the ed. do a review of the literature now, use goggle if you like to get ideas. to be critical of np education secondary to a lack of advanced science and then ask what you could focus on as a dnp is simply "strange".

Up Vote Up Vote ×
please tell me your joking???? you can't think of a cognate that would enhance your ability to "save lives". you can't think of a scholarly project that would influence care of patients in the ed? try watching reruns of er or gray's anatomy to discover areas that need analysis or improvement in the ed. do a review of the literature now, use goggle if you like to get ideas. to be critical of np education secondary to a lack of advanced science and then ask what you could focus on as a dnp is simply "strange".

i was looking for some suggestions from someone with far more advanced knowledge than myself. i have a fairly solid base of undergraduate science courses, but none at the graduate level and minimal nursing education in comparison. i'm quite good at researching things on the internet (too bad that can't be a career).

having been a patient in the ed, a tech in the ed, and shadowed in the ed i can think of lots of ways to improve, but i can't be sure they are all feasible. i can also come up with a billion and a half things i'd love to learn already to make myself better at "saving lives," but i figured you, as an already advanced practice nurse, would be able to offer some advice/guidance. my apologies for trying to learn from someone with a greater knowledge base than myself.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
please tell me your joking???? you can’t think of a cognate that would enhance your ability to "save lives". you can’t think of a scholarly project that would influence care of patients in the ed? try watching reruns of er or gray's anatomy to discover areas that need analysis or improvement in the ed. do a review of the literature now, use goggle if you like to get ideas. to be critical of np education secondary to a lack of advanced science and then ask what you could focus on as a dnp is simply "strange".

what kind of scholarly project is it? similar to a thesis or dissertation? i mean, i've been doing basic science research from a while and though i understand the mechanistic details of a certain pathology, all this knowledge i have doesn't really help me translate it into clinical application. the fact that i can recite every single step of multiple molecular pathways involved in the disease doesn't really mean much in the clinic. is that the type of project you're talking about? if so, why is that part of a supposed clinical doctorate? i'm wondering why a scholarly project is part of a clinical doctorate in the first place when a phd already exists. maybe you can clarify? it would seem that the dnp would be better suited by providing more physio/pathophys and increasing the minimum required clinical hours rather than a scholarly project which should really be tackled during a phd.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Critical Care, Emergency, Education, Informatics.
My interests are in trauma/EM. I plan to become an ACNP and later go back and get my pediatric acute care NP license as well so I can work in a Level I Trauma Center and treat patients of all ages. What would I focus my DNP on if my goals were to truly save lives in the trauma bay?

I'm not sure that the DNP would be the best way for you to go at this time. When dealing with trauma and Emergency pt's you have to look at the state your planning on working in. In some locations you'll need your FNP, some will require ACNP and add to that the induvidual hospital requirments. And once you get there, you may find that the Public Health or PhD route gets you were you want ot be.

You prob a bit early to really worry about it. Just keep an eye on things.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Critical Care, Patient Safety.

In attempting to scroll through all 80+ pages of this topic, I was trying to find out if there have been any changes in making the transition in 2015. I looked at the AACN website and it still says 2015, but I have a hard time believing that's really going to happen - but now I'm feeling pressured to get it done ASAP to avoid having to pursue a DNP.

ALSO, I'm wondering how post master's programs would work for people who already have an MSN and want to pursue getting a post master's certificate. I'm about to graduate with a generalist entry master's degree and I really *DO NOT* want to have to go back to school (after having spent 2 years in grad school pursuing this degree) and spend another 3-4 years getting a DNP, especially as I don't think it's necessary and would most likely be extremely costly.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in CT ICU, OR, Orthopedic.

The date of 2015 still stands, although some schools have already requested (& I think been denied) extensions. You will be grandfathered in, and will not need to get your DNP. if you choose to however, it is a two year full time comittment... 3-4 years part time. It would not be a post masters certificate, it would be a doctoral degree... Hope this helps!

Up Vote Up Vote ×

The 2015 date is a suggestion. This is not a done deal. Unless you are going to teach, this degree offers nothing more than fluff classes.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Critical Care, Patient Safety.

Out of curiosity (and I'm sure this is also mentioned elsewhere, but this topic has way too many pages to wade through), what is the difference between someone like me (who will be obtaining an MSN) getting a post master's certificate and getting a DNP? A post master's certificate would take between 1-2 years full time; a DNP sounds like 2 years full time.

Also, do other countries recognize a DNP? It seems like a uniquely American invention, it would make me question how it is recognized in other countries where I've thought of moving and working and/or when wanting to do international volunteering & work (which I want to make a cornerstone of my practice).

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Join the Discussion