Doctoral degree to become an NP???

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The American Association of Colleges of Nursing (AACN) is calling for the requirement of doctorate in nursing for advanced practice nurses, such as nurse practitioners, nurse midwives, clinical nurse specialists, and nurse anesthetists. This new degree will be called a Doctor of Nursing Practice and, if the AACN has its way, will become the entry level for advanced nursing practice.

AACN Position Statement on the Practice Doctorate in Nursing

"Anyway, the clinical practice & medical knowledge part of being an NP should come naturally to a nurse."

So you're saying that there's no need for the advanced sciences? Do you also feel that the sciences learned in undergraduate training are enough education for the practitioner to function in the clinical arena? The additional leraning needed should come easier to nurses but it should be there. The DNP progs out there just don't offer the coures, in my opinion, needed in order to safely practice. The nursing theories can only take you so far but cannot help with diagnosis, treatments, ongoing patient management, etc. These are concept that must be taught.

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If you want to see a REAL mid-level education...

Anatomy

The course in anatomy is a central focus of basic science education in the Physician Assistant Program. During this course the student is introduced to gross anatomy presented by the regional approach. The student becomes familiar with the chest, upper extremity, abdomen, pelvis, lower extremity, neck, head, and the central nervous system. Whenever appropriate, clinical and especially surgical correlation's are made both from a diagnostic as well as operative point of view. Instruction is primarily in lecture and lab format, however, atlases and other visual aides are available.

Physiology

The principal objective of the physiology course is to provide physician assistant students with a basic understanding of both cellular physiology and integrative physiology. The course introduces students to the normal vital processes of the human body. Students will be taught the characteristics of cellular structure and the cellular mechanisms, which promote the maintenance of homeostasis. In addition, the specific characteristics of the nervous system, the respiratory system, the endocrine system, the cardiovascular system, gastrointestinal system and the kidney will be discussed in detail to provide a basis with which to compare and characterize clinical disorders.

Microbiology

The course in microbiology and immunology familiarizes the student with the basic information needed to understand the role of these disciplines in clinical medicine. Lectures are supplemented with demonstration materials from the Laboratory of Microbiology whenever feasible. The core course includes Bacteriology, Mycology, Virology, Parasitology, and Immunology. Emphasis is placed on the presentation of practical and useful infectious disease topics relevant to clinical practice.

Biochemistry

Medical biochemistry emphasizes the biomedical principles of carbohydrate, protein, and lipid chemistry fundamental to clinical medicine. Basic biochemical information is presented and integrated with selected nutritional and health problems by means of lectures and clinical discussions. Specific topics include vitamins, minerals, the chemistry of respiration, pH balance, blood coagulation, and hormonal effects on the metabolism of proteins, carbohydrates and lipids. Clinical biochemistry correlates concepts of medical biochemistry with clinical problems such as maintenance of good health, aging, wound healing and growth. Specific topics include hormonal dysfunction, pancreatic/ gastric function, iron/heme metabolism, and mineral/water balance.

Pharmacology

The course in pharmacology introduces the student to therapeutic drugs, their chemistries, actions and uses. Instruction is presented in lecture format. Emphasis is placed on the practical application and evaluation of drug actions on the functions of various organ systems of the human body including but not limited to the autonomic nervous system and cardiovascular system. Studies of antibiotics as well as other important topics are also covered.

Pathology

This course in pathology introduces the student to the natural history, etiology, pathogenesis (gross and microscopic) and clinical findings associated with disease states. Instruction is presented mainly in lecture format with the use of visual aids. Emphasis is placed on disorders commonly encountered in surgical patients.

The Medical Interview

This course will introduce the student to the skills necessary for successful medical interviewing. Course materials and readings will explore the relationship between normal conversation and medical interviewing. The student will learn and practice various techniques for eliciting an accurate medical history from a variety of patient types. Each section of the medical interview will be studied and practiced in detail in preparation for the patient encounters scheduled for the subsequent semester.

Physical Diagnosis I & II

This course, offered in a two-semester sequence, introduces the student to the fundamental techniques of interview and examination. The student will use this basic knowledge throughout his or her career in medicine. Emphasis is on performance of mastered techniques, medical chart recording and oral presentation format in preparation for the clinical phase of education.

Surgical Aspects of Primary Care/General Surgery/Surgical Specialties

The surgery courses are divided into three semesters. The student is introduced to clinical problems common to the discipline of surgical practice including clinical presentation and the correlation between anatomy, pathology, and stage of disease and treatment. Indications and contraindication for surgery are presented along with a pertinent discussion of surgical techniques. The student is introduced to operating room protocol, asepsis and scrubbing, gowning and gloving, instrumentation, suturing and knot tying. The disciplines of orthopedics, radiology, and anesthesiology are also introduced.

The entire Surgery curriculum includes laboratory sessions which are designed to introduce the student to the practical care of patients including bedside procedures such as intravenous catheterization, blood drawing, techniques of hemostasis, suturing methods, use of drains, catheterization techniques, nasogastric intubations, wound care management, and preoperative, postoperative and daily note writing. At this time the student is introduced to the hospital setting and is assigned to attend morning rounds on various clinical rotations in preparation for clinical rotation.

Fundamentals of Primary Care and Clinical Medicine I & II

The medicine course is divided into two semesters. Each semester's course is divided into smaller modules, which introduce the student to the various medical sub-specialties. The student is introduced to recognition and management of common medical problems encountered inpatients and outpatient medical facilities. These include topics such as hypertension, cardiovascular and pulmonary diseases, diabetes, hematologic disorders, hematology, oncology, endocrinology, and otolaryngology and multiple system abnormalities of the elderly.

Obstetrics and Gynecology

This course introduces the student to the fundamentals of prenatal care and childbirth as well as common obstetrical and gynecologic problems and other issues related to women's health that are encountered in clinical practice.

Pediatrics

This course introduces the student to the fundamentals of growth and development, well-baby care, principles of immunization, commonly encountered childhood diseases and their treatments as seen in clinical practice.

Psychiatry

This course introduces the student to the fundamentals of common behavioral abnormalities and their treatment as encountered in clinical practice. Topics include the professional-patient relationship, reactions to history taking and physical examination, stress and coping mechanisms, detection and treatment of psychiatric complications, and management of death and dying.

Physician Assistant Seminar

This course prepares the student to understand the role of the physician assistant in the 21st century healthcare in the United States. Topics are addressed such as professionalism, legal aspects of health care, use of medical literature, familial and cultural components of health care, medical ethics, health promotion/disease prevention, and patient education.

Emergency Medicine

This course further explores concepts introduced in Fundamentals and in Surgery lectures, with an emphasis on emergent care and life-threatening illness and injury. Common presenting complaints seen in emergency medicine settings, their diagnosis and treatment are addressed. Explores emergency medicine both as a field of study and as a medical specialty.

Research I

This course explores the basic concepts of research in the health sciences and the communication of new information to peers. Standard style and content for research proposals, publications and presentations are utilized. Topics such as problem finding, formulation of a research questions, methodology, design, instrumentation, literature review, ethics and funding are explored. Published research articles will be critically analyzed.

Research II

This course applies the theoretical foundation of Research I in the formulation and satisfactory completion of a written final project, working individually with a project advisor. The research process will conclude in an oral presentation to peers and submission of a clinical review article suitable for publication in a peer-reviewed journal.

Epidemiology

This course applies the scientific method to the study of disease in populations. The epidemiological method for studying a problem involves description of the frequency and determinants of a disease in a defined population , evaluation of factors that may cause a disease, and experimental studies of the effects of modifying risk factors on the subsequent frequency of a disease.

Biostatistics

This course provides an introduction to statistical methods as applied to health care research. Topics include population sampling, hypotheses testing, probability, and chi-square, linear regression and correlation, analysis of variance and non-parametric statistics.

This includes a full cadaver dissection lab and patient contact.

Then clinicals...

Internal Medicine - 8 weeks

Surgery - 8 weeks

Pediatrics - 4 weeks

Primary Care - 4 weeks

OB/Gyn - 4 weeks

Emergency Medicine - 4 weeks

Family Medicine - 4 weeks

Psychiatry - 2 weeks

Geriatrics - 2 weeks

Electives (to allow specialization) - 20 weeks

If we assume 40 hours per week, that is 2,400 clinical hours. 800 of those hours are elective and allow you to specialize, which is more hours than a NP gets in their "specialty" area. And we all know a lot of those clinicals won't let you get away with just 40 hours per week!

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"Anyway, the clinical practice & medical knowledge part of being an NP should come naturally to a nurse."

So you're saying that there's no need for the advanced sciences?

Not at all. My tongue was firmly planted in cheek; I agree with you :lol2:

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Hmmm... is this lack of focus on clinical skills & medical content to prove that NPs are not just "mini-MDs"? After all, advanced practice nursing isn't just *doing* things traditionally done by physicians (ordering tests, txts, making diagnoses, etc) and certainly it's much more than being an "physician-extender." The content needs to be clearly grounded in Nursing, not Medicine so as not to elicit accusations that NP are in fact practicing medicine and not nursing.

I work w/ many NPs and they are great at practicing medicine.

The only nursing I see practiced is by nurses!

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Specializes in OB/GYN, Psych.

Can anyone tell me when in 2015 this proposal about the DNP becoming the terminal degree for NPs is likely to go into affect (if it does)? I am looking at MSN programs and the one I am most interested in would wrap up in early 2015 (I wouldn't be starting until late 2011 so I can get some more nursing experience under my belt). Is it even worth pursuing in that case?

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I work w/ many NPs and they are great at practicing medicine.

The only nursing I see practiced is by nurses!

An aside to the DNP question, but in reference to NP practice in general... how do NPs program define 'nursing'? Is it different than that emphasized in basic nursing training. My program heavily emphasized that nursing did NOT involve 'medical' diagnoses (only nursing diagnoses!) nor making medical treatment decisions (only nursing interventions). At the most, nurses could be involved in "collaberative care" that facilitates best medical care. Is there already a thread out there that addressed this?

Once again, y'all now get back to 'Doctoral degree to become an NP???'

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A NP, or Nurse Practitioner = A Nurse that practices a little medicine.

No? It's not simply a nurse that practices a little more nursing than a nurse, is it?

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What exactly are you saying or asking??

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What exactly are you saying or asking??

I'm reacting to various posts I've seen emphasizing nursing's perspective (vs. medicine's) and how the advanced degrees (NP, DNP) further learning and the science of the nursing perspective. I however, with total respect and appreciation for the nursing approach to patient care and healthcare in general, have not recognized any advancement of "nursing" per se in the work NP's do, I see their work and skills as a "medical" extension to their responsibilities. DNPs/NPs are not identifying more advanced nursing diagnoses. They are not implementing more sophisticated nursing interventions. They are performing skills that are generally "medical". This is NOT a criticism whatsoever! The NP's I've worked with are awesome and I aspire to their talents! I am firmly planted in the camp that would hope there would be much more clinical training in the DNP curriculums I've read about so far, even in the NP programs. And I do not think much of the DNP coursework that seems to exist primarily to justify or emphasize the "nursing" nature of the DNP degree when it really belongs in different programs: public health administration, PhD, MBA... etc.

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i'm reacting to various posts i've seen emphasizing nursing's perspective (vs. medicine's) and how the advanced degrees (np, dnp) further learning and the science of the nursing perspective. i however, with total respect and appreciation for the nursing approach to patient care and healthcare in general, have not recognized any advancement of "nursing" per se in the work np's do, i see their work and skills as a "medical" extension to their responsibilities. dnps/nps are not identifying more advanced nursing diagnoses. they are not implementing more sophisticated nursing interventions. they are performing skills that are generally "medical". this is not a criticism whatsoever! the np's i've worked with are awesome and i aspire to their talents! i am firmly planted in the camp that would hope there would be much more clinical training in the dnp curriculums i've read about so far, even in the np programs. and i do not think much of the dnp coursework that seems to exist primarily to justify or emphasize the "nursing" nature of the dnp degree when it really belongs in different programs: public health administration, phd, mba... etc.

what is medical?

- relating to the study or practice of medicine; "the medical profession"; "a medical student"; "medical school"

- requiring or amenable to treatment by medicine especially as opposed to surgery; "medical treatment"; "pneumonia is a medical disease"

- checkup: a thorough physical examination; includes a variety of tests depending on the age and sex and health of the person

- aesculapian: of or belonging to aesculapius or the healing art

what is nursing?

nursing is a healthcare profession focused on the care of individuals, families, and communities, they may attain, maintain, or recover optimal health and quality of life from birth to the end of life.

so tell me what is the difference again? tell me mds don't practice nursing. in reality, i would say mds have started to practice more "nursing" the past 10 years, increased focus on the care of individuals, families, and communities.

we all practice health care, our goal is to improve the quality of life for our patients.

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Hi Everyone,

Has anyone looked into applying for a DNP program post-masters without experience as an advanced practice nurse.

Ideally, I would like to keep up my momentum when I am done my Masters in the spring of '11 and continue on to my DNP degree. I have noticed that alot of schools in NY and NYC require a year or two experience as an advanced practice nurse. Any thoughts or comments?

Thanks!

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Specializes in GI/GU surg,Pacu, ct surg, home care, NH.

I think it would be to your benefit to actually work as a NP before getting your DNP. The DNP is really designed for experienced NPs with experience who want to increase their knowledge base. I dont know of any school that allows you to enroll in their DNP program without experience.

Another thing. Wouldnt you want to start working as a NP and determining if you even like being a NP before you go and invest thousands of dollars into another degree. Just a thought.

Me personally I am still debating whether or not a DNP is worth it for me.

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