Doctoral degree to become an NP???

Dixiecup · Dec 12, 2009

i know someone who is in the DNP program right now. All she is doing is writing a bunch more LONG papers, taking a bunch more ADVANCED statistics classes. so far I see nothing that will benefit her to becoming "more doctor like". I think it's just a big money rackett.

I don't see any more clinical advantages or education to this degree at all. This person is one of those who just can't wait till people have to call her "doctor". Personally, I hope they still don't allow it. I don't care how many degrees you have, until you go to medical school, you are NOT a doctor.

zenman · Dec 12, 2009

i know someone who is in the DNP program right now. All she is doing is writing a bunch more LONG papers, taking a bunch more ADVANCED statistics classes. so far I see nothing that will benefit her to becoming "more doctor like". I think it's just a big money rackett.
I don't see any more clinical advantages or education to this degree at all. This person is one of those who just can't wait till people have to call her "doctor". Personally, I hope they still don't allow it. I don't care how many degrees you have, until you go to medical school, you are NOT a doctor.

If you get a doctorate in any area, even recreational therapy, you are a doctor. However, you are not a physician.

carachel2 · Dec 12, 2009

PT, OT and Pharmacy are now pretty much required to have a PhD. I have't read all of these posts, but I would say if they make it heavy on the clinical hours it will be a worthy degree. Now if it is only additional research and theory then BLECH.no way.

prairienp · Dec 14, 2009

i know someone who is in the dnp program right now. all she is doing is writing a bunch more long papers, taking a bunch more advanced statistics classes. so far i see nothing that will benefit her to becoming "more doctor like". i think it's just a big money rackett.
i don't see any more clinical advantages or education to this degree at all. this person is one of those who just can't wait till people have to call her "doctor". personally, i hope they still don't allow it. i don't care how many degrees you have, until you go to medical school, you are not a doctor.

the generic dnp is increasing the clinical hours from the current minimum of 500 to 1000. in addition, most of the programs are adding content in genetics, leadership, and organizational behavior. i am confused by your more doctor like comment, which i think you are suggesting more md like. as far as i know medical school does not provide a "lot" more advanced stats courses. i suspect they require none. if you are suggesting more phd like, yes advanced stats courses are required and needed for disquisitions.

your last sentence may be more meaningful if you said until you go to medical school you are not a md.

the reality is the dnp will be the entrance degree for the np by 2015. there are very few programs who remain opposed, the vast majority of academic institutions have accepted the national recommendations and have implemented dnp programs or are in the process.

the vast majority of these dnp graduates will not be looking to the dnp as a way to call themselves "doctor" or will they feel they are equal to a md. there will always be a few who will insist on characterizing the dnp as seeking md status. the vast majority of nps regardless of preparation will continue to provide outstanding healthcare. the additional educational requirements should enhance their preparation as a healthcare provider, one who has been exposed to more than just the clinical part of being a np.

Spacklehead, MSN, NP · Dec 14, 2009

What I find very frustrating about these DNP programs is an on-going problem with nursing in general. There seems to be no set requirements for the degree across the board - they vary from school to school. I was just visiting one school's Web site that offers the DNP and it states you have to have at least one year of experience as an NP before applying to the program, yet there are other schools who accept BSNs with no previous clinical experience. Also, I just don't get the required extra clinical time (500 hours +) if someone has already been practicing as an NP for several years (for those of us who are MSNs but are considering going back for a DNP degree). As a BSN to DNP direct entry program, I can understand it, but to have a practicing NP go through it? Kind of silly in my mind, and this is where I find the credibility of some programs to be questionable.

elkpark · Dec 14, 2009

The reality is the DNP will be the entrance degree for the NP by 2015. There are very few programs who remain opposed, the vast majority of academic institutions have accepted the national recommendations and have implemented DNP programs or are in the process.

There is a big difference between schools offering this degree and the various licensing, accrediting and regulatory agencies requiring it. We are all aware of the huge gulf often existing between academia and the "real world."

caliotter3 · Dec 14, 2009

The only nurse that I have met with a degree beyond MSN who was not an instructor in a nursing school, failed in her business as a consultant and bailed out of a DNS position when the heat became too high. Frankly, except for a very few who have well-defined career aspirations, I see no need for the degree, just to fail in the work arena.

prairienp · Dec 14, 2009

There is a big difference between schools offering this degree and the various licensing, accrediting and regulatory agencies requiring it. We are all aware of the huge gulf often existing between academia and the "real world."

What is the "huge gulf" , my understanding is that all FNP faculty(academia) are required to maintain a practice (real world).

prairienp · Dec 14, 2009

the only nurse that i have met with a degree beyond msn who was not an instructor in a nursing school, failed in her business as a consultant and bailed out of a dns position when the heat became too high. frankly, except for a very few who have well-defined career aspirations, i see no need for the degree, just to fail in the work arena.

thus, the only nurse that you have met with a degree beyond a masters (? doctorate in what) who wasn't faculty, failed? thus, all nurses not in academia do not need the degree? many of our new dnp students with their newly acquired "advanced statistics" courses may refer to this an "outlier".

PICUPNP · Dec 14, 2009

It doesn't make sense to design a terminal degree for NP's without the addition of some of the hard sciences. Regardless of what my colleagues may think, PA's have a far better education than NP's due to the fact that their program is heavily concentrated in the more advanced sciences. NP's don't need to spend their time with classes on BS theory and statistics!

Dr. Tammy, FNP/GNP-C · Dec 15, 2009

It doesn't make sense to design a terminal degree for NP's without the addition of some of the hard sciences. Regardless of what my colleagues may think, PA's have a far better education than NP's due to the fact that their program is heavily concentrated in the more advanced sciences. NP's don't need to spend their time with classes on BS theory and statistics!

Perhaps it's that "BS theory" stuff that has provided for NP practice, independent of physicians, in the vast majority of states while no states allow for independent PA practice.

PICUPNP · Dec 15, 2009

The BS theory stuff has ZERO applicability to patient management except as a bedside RN. NP's need real world patient management education. How can you say that understanding nursing theory has given Nps independent practice? The ONLY thing that has given us independent practice is the aggressive lobbying. As a Np, I don't even agree with our independent practice rights! We should have to have a SP just like the PA's do and they have significantly more education, didactic, than Nps do.!