Do You Want Universal Healthcare?

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I know this topic has been discussed before on this site..but, I was curious for an updated response. How many of you would be willing to pay more taxes for universal healthcare? I find it egregious that the US has put a cost on maintaining/saving ones life! I traveled to Europe and the thought of them having to bring their checkbook to the hospital aroused literal laughs. It's the same notion that we'd have to whip out our debit card to firefighters before they turned the hoses on our burning homes. It's sad. I think the overall costs of UH would be beneficial...in fact, the raised taxes would still probably be lower than our rising premiums every 2 weeks! Thoughts?

Specializes in ICU/Critical Care.

Hey they're already taxing me for everything else, tax me some more. I even get taxed by the City of Detroit for the mayor's personal and legal troubles, add some more taxes. I don't care.

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NEVER will raising taxes be a good idea. Have you even looked at the TOP of your paycheck lately?? You make a hypothetical 100K per year and you have no problem handing over $30,000 per year to the government as THEY see fit??? Plus you want to increase that number AND give the government control over your health???

What that means is, you're already willing to come to work 5 days/week for almost 4 months so you can help pay Senator so-n-so to pork some kid in his stretch limo between lobster dinners that you also paid for, before you even make a single dime for the year, and now you're willing to pay even more to the gov't AND give up your right to choose, instead of keeping control, and paying the insurance company yourself.

.

rb

I didn't really understand this component of life until I was married to a farmer/logger who is self-employed and we had kids. My goal has always been to stay at home and raise my children myself. It is very difficult to do when so much of our money is given away to the government . . .when the government wastes so much of it. That is so frustrating . . . . the waste, the pork.

Before taxes are raised, the budget needs to be looked and and readjusted by taking out the billions in unnecessary spending. No household budget would be run the way our government runs it's budget.

I did not work when my first three children were young - but we struggled financially. And it hurt to write that check every April - that huge check - right when we needed money the most after a winter off from seasonal work.

This was about the time I changed from liberal Democrat to conservative Republican. When real life hit me in the face.

I do not want my taxes raised even more.

I want them lowered.

steph

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Specializes in PACU,Trauma ICU,CVICU,Med-Surg,EENT.

I am a Canadian citizen and have been an RN in the same system for ~28 years,and while our Universal Healthcare system does have its problems - longer surgical wait lists immediately comes to mind....I would never,ever,EVER not want to have this system in place. The horror,sheer horror stories I have read about pts and their families struggling in a system where they are not guaranteed universal access because they can't afford health insurance...well,it must be terrifying to live out in real life.

In my most recent nursing experiences,I currently work in the Post Anesthetic Care Unit,and prior to that,10 yrs in Cardiovascular ICU - I constantly see patients who have been reevaluated for change of status, and as a consequence, have been upgraded from elective to emergency status in terms of their surgery. CABGs NEVER had to sit on a list and die. It's just not done - if you think it is,then you are misinformed. That being said,I'm sure I can't say that people haven't died on a list, for whatever reason - but it is not the norm. When you come to the ER and you need surgery NOW -you are never moved to another facility (unless it's to a more advanced centre,of course). No one is ever turned away.Ever.

Patients and their families are encouraged to check out other places where the wait list for their surgery,test,or other care is shorter.Each Canadian provincial Department of Health has a public website which displays up-to-date waitlist times for every surgical service. You are welcome to look around for somewhere to have your procedure/test (e.g. MRI,CT) done sooner.

As a matter of fact,a few weeks ago when home on vacation (about 5 hrs drive away),as soon as I saw the open lesion on my mother's nose,I knew it would be totally inadvisable for her to wait until the late Sept surgical date she'd been given (I found out later through the Dr's receptionist that my mom had been given a much earlier surgery date and had refused it! ....my Mom got a lecture). I brought her home with me - and started making calls. Without going through the route of "pulling strings" and speaking with one of our plastic surgeons moving through PACU (I work in a large,tertiary care centre),which I contemplated...I reached a wonderfully kind,compassionate receptionist for a recommended ENT surgeon who saw my mom in clinic the following week. Luckily,the basal cell ca is in early stages,not yet affecting the cartilage. We don't have a surgery date yet,BUT the surgeon made sure to tell us that if it got any larger,then he wanted to know about it and her status would be bumped up and she'd climb the waitlist....and that's how it's done.

Not all, but many of the waitlists are made up of people to whom,in the BIG picture, it's an annoying inconvenience not to have an earlier surgery date but it is not critical. For example,when I finally had sx to implant a Bone-Anchored Hearing Aid in the mastoid section of my skull,I DID have to wait 2 yrs,but I'd had one-sided hearing loss for 35yrs already anyway... I actually decided to wait that long until the procedure was reevaluated by our provincial government,and became fully funded -prior to that it cost $5,000.

It IS a fantastically expensive system to run and it has problems,but what I see is ongoing assessment,creativity,and determination to make it better,where new ideas are generated,new ways of organizing, combining, juggling are brainstormed, communication between departments is fine tuned,and people are commited and proactive.

Does the system have faults? ....you bet.

Would I trade it? ...not on your life.

I get immense personal satisfaction working in a system which doesn't favour the wealthy sick over the folks with absolutely nothing to call their own,except their intrinsic worth as human beings.

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Specializes in RN, BSN, CHDN.

I have had the priveldge of working in both countries and there are good and bad points to both system.

The best part of being in the UK is that is costs the normal person so much less, there is no stressing about affording health care or not.

There are NO co-pays, no insurance premiums.

You go see a doctor and it costs you nothing.

You still wait for a good length of time in both countries, I have waited upto 2 hours in the USA to see a specialist I have just paid a $35 co-pay for.

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Specializes in L & D; Postpartum.

Does the system have faults? ....you bet.

Would I trade it? ...not on your life.

I get immense personal satisfaction working in a system which doesn't favour the wealthy sick over the folks with absolutely nothing to call their own,except their intrinsic worth as human beings.

You paint a great picture and thank you for it. I sincerely mean that. We need to hear both sides. I'm curious about how your system would handle the freqent flyers: in my own experience, pregnant gals who come in by ambulance every 2-3 weeks, with a rash, or a cough, or leg cramps.

We certainly don't turn those people away and it's obvious they don't have money (or a job), even though they have cell phones, nice nails, unlimited smokes. They get cared for to be sure. Those of us who do have a co-pay have to evaluate whether that rash is really worth of an ambulance ride and hospital visit. And as a tax payer, it chaps me a bit when those same people declare that it's all "free." Well, free to them because I'm paying for it.

Out of curiosity, what do you think would have happened to my DH. Sixty years old, 3 weeks post-retirement from major airline, got a PSA result of 8.5. Biopsy showed 6's and 8's on the Gleason Scale. He opted for ASAP surgery, and not robotic because he wanted them to look around in there for any mets. His surgery was done 1 month to the day after we first got the PSA results and he just finished a 37 treatment radiation regimen that the doc recommended as a backup. Surgery was early December. The tumor was 60% of the prostate, into but not out of (as far as we know) the margins. The tumor was much larger in reality than the biopsy indicated. Under your system, what would his care have been? In our system, he got immediate and excellent care. Yes we have good insurance, but he/we have been working our bums off for 40+ years for it. It did cause us to think about what people do when they don't have good insurance. Still, it would be very unfair for him to be told to go home, and we'll just watch it (If I hear one more time that they don't even treat prostate cancer in Sweden, I may scream.) Under that kind of care, he'd be dead in a very short time.

Anyway, I am curious as to how his case would be handled in your world. Thanks.

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With the money we've spent on the war, we can definitley have universal health care. I don't see why not.

I would like to see more money spent on preventative care rather than just treating people when they get sick. It helps every one out.

Things won't be perfect with it but I think it would be better than the current system. It's a shame so many hard working people can't get health care or can't afford it. At one point my cousin was on Medicare/Medicaid (whichever one it is) and she could go to the doctor ANY time there was a problem and then I on the other hand can only go when something is seriously wrong and my mom works really hard to provide for us. She works for Sam's and I absolutely loved it when she had HMO because I went to the doctor at least once a year. I haven't been in about 2 years. I'm going next week though. =]

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Specializes in MICU, ER, SICU, Home Health, Corrections.
:lol2::lol2::lol2::lol2:

because of course that's what happens in the uk / canada and other countries with uhc. you cost too much and then you get switched off :yeah:

(your example really made me giggle) :D

could you use an example that is not quite so laughable, i nearly choked on my coffee laughing when i read that :D.

no offense at all. you see, that *was* my example; and it was meant to be laughable; because i promise you that is what us lawmakers will do to uhc. didn't mean to imply that was truth outside the us. i sometimes forget the lack of borders here, sorry! continue reading to see one good reason why that will be....

hey they're already taxing me for everything else, tax me some more. i even get taxed by the city of detroit for the mayor's personal and legal troubles, add some more taxes. i don't care.

...and people ultimately get frustrated/angry and just give up. it's easier to be passive.

for those in the usa, here is the key thought: imagine you wake up one day and *everybody* is on medicaid. now imagine all clinicians above the level of general practitioner are suddenly on a "salary" that won't even touch their 800k/year lifestyle [to spell it out.. surgeons, specialists, et al]...

what's gonna happen? [hint: they retire, leave for greener pastures, or the gov't raises taxes] but you be the judge, it's your money.

if you've read my other posts, i was not speaking about crf patients who lead a normal life. i was speaking about patients who are brain dead and whose families want to keep them alive via ventilator. i thought your response was very rude.

then i misunderstood and apologize. the thread is about uhc. eol care under uhc is trivial compared to actually getting there. uhc is already in place elsewhere and may be doing it's thing, but do you really believe that us lawmakers will be able to just make it happen here without absolutely bankrupting this country... literally... ????

if so, you have more faith than i.

rb

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Specializes in MICU, ER, SICU, Home Health, Corrections.

http://www.theresmytwocents.com/2008/01/dangers-of-universal-medicine.html

Here is some light reading, and PLEASE:

It's just an opinion,

Personally, I do not believe UHC is bad, and this person may be daft, but it does give you some food for thought about what could be fixed or done differently.

rb

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Specializes in MICU, ER, SICU, Home Health, Corrections.
With the money we've spent on the war, we can definitley have universal health care. I don't see why not.

I would like to see more money spent on preventative care rather than just treating people when they get sick. It helps every one out.

Things won't be perfect with it but I think it would be better than the current system. It's a shame so many hard working people can't get health care or can't afford it. At one point my cousin was on Medicare/Medicaid (whichever one it is) and she could go to the doctor ANY time there was a problem and then I on the other hand can only go when something is seriously wrong and my mom works really hard to provide for us. She works for Sam's and I absolutely loved it when she had HMO because I went to the doctor at least once a year. I haven't been in about 2 years. I'm going next week though. =]

And again, that is exactly what scares the crap outta me.... making the individual responsible and giving them a "gold card".. [ie; stop drinking, doping, cheating diabetics, smokers, lazy overweight, and just poor judgement] and then saying FREE HEALTHCARE, step right up.

You cannot force preventative care, and that will be the key.

Please tell me how to make UHC work in a country chock full of arrogant, self-centered, gimme-my-free-handout, where's-my-check mentalities that have been bred over generations?

Drop by the ER.

You see them all day, every day... the only thing holding them back is money.

Then make that ER trip free, with near free meds, and near free followups for more near free meds.

Can you even imagine that?

rb

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Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.

I guess I am a bleeding heart. In addition, I am not that savvy about the intricacies of politics and such. However, there will be abusers in every man made system for sure. But, I feel guilty each time I have seen patients turned away or settled for less than adequate care because of money. Also, as a health care provider, I can easily be in their shoes if I were not employed in a place that had decent insurance. Many of the agency nurses I work with have no insurance coverage. They are breaking their backs each day going to different facilities and floors to care for others, pitching in to help us keep from drowning, but if they were to have a catastropic event, they would be wiped out within days. Call me naive, but I go for it in a heartbeat.

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Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.

Our triage nurses can and determine a person presenting themself to the ER does not need to be assigned to a nurse.

It may be an ingrown toenail, cut that may need suturing, or a fever and cough with normal VX & O2sat.

Then the person is usually walked to urgent care or may sign a waiver that they refused care.

Urgent care is staffed with one MD, NPs, a PA, and LVNs.

Since the sixties dialysis patients are covered by Medicare regardless of their age.

My sister owns a business, works, pays taxes, and enjoys her life. She doesn't golf but she bowls.

If not for Medicare coverage for dialysis she would likely be dropped from her previous HMO coverage. And have to stop working, sell the house, and spend all resources.

As it is she is paying for grandchildren and great neices and nephews college education. One finished grad school.

She feels good partly thanks to great diet and recipe books recommended by an allnurses member who worked dialysis.

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Specializes in RN, BSN, CHDN.

You know the debate could go on for ever but what I find difficult to understand is if the US does adopt 'Universal Healthcare" How on earth are they going to accomplish it, I know how involved the insurance companies are, how are they going to let go, I cannot imagine how much money theyt potenially will lose. What about the jobs? It is such a vast change I doubt we will see it in our lifetime it would take 10's of years to initiate.

Maybe somebody can tell me more information which is in place already and I dont mean the access/medicare we provide already because that is just a tip of an iceburg.

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