Do You Want Universal Healthcare?

Mimmm · Jul 25, 2008

Do you really want the CEO and the Board of Directors of various health insurance companies deciding between taking care of you and their shareholders?
Look at what happens when "big business" runs amuck. Ken Lay, Jeff Skilling, Michael Milken, Bear Sterns, Worldcom, etc etc... i can go on. You lambast "big government" without taking a critical look at what big business has done. Don't even get me started in the mortgage/credit crisis we have now. Talk about letting business run amuck...

If i'm not mistaken, sounds like all these companies "got caught", they paid huge fines, some served prison time, recieved bad publicity. In addition to being caught, people then had the choice of using and investing in these companies with the information brought to them. But... if the government were in charge they may just change the rules (since they for the most part they make the rules), like they did with social security. The govenrment changed the rules (a promise made to the American people) and decided it was ok to spend our social security on other things. Who will investigate the government?? Will it investigate itself and hold itself accountable?

wherever there is lots of money and power, there will be fraud. Big business and government alike. At least we have choices with business, but not government. We all have to pay taxes no matter how our money is spent.

allnurses Guide · Jul 25, 2008

I'm not trying to sound insensitive but if universial healthcare was to be put into place, what would happen to all the vent-dependant brain dead patients? Just curious because their care alone is millions and millions of dollars. Is the government going to make it easier for the docs to have the authority to remove patients from vents when their quality of life is futile?

I think I have made a comment about this on a thread elsewhere. In the UK it is the doc decision to withdraw treatment and they are supported by UK law to do so. we listen to the families wishes but at the end of the day if it is a futile attempt then withdrawl of treatment is made.

RN1982 · Jul 25, 2008

I think I have made a comment about this on a thread elsewhere. In the UK it is the doc decision to withdraw treatment and they are supported by UK law to do so. we listen to the families wishes but at the end of the day if it is a futile attempt then withdrawl of treatment is made.

See, that's my point. That's what needs to happen here. It doesn't though. It's always the families choice and doctors can't make that decision on their own no matter how futile the patient's situation is.

TreeDoc · Jul 26, 2008

I know this is off topic and I know I shouldn't go down this road but....
Who said we were a "christian nation"?

The Declaration of Independence...the Constitution...

RN1982 · Jul 26, 2008

This is way off topic and it's gonna get out of control so I might as well contribute my opinion. Nowhere in the Declaration or the constitution does it state that the U.S. is a christian nation and the government does not recognize Christianity as this country's official religion.

And direct from our Constitution....the First Amendment...

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

TreeDoc · Jul 26, 2008

This is way off topic and it's gonna get out of control so I might as well contribute my opinion. Nowhere in the Declaration or the constitution does it state that the U.S. is a christian nation.

What do you mean by "is"?

Your right, I am wrong...The Constitution was a reach (and an error) but the Declaration of Independence is pretty clear..."God" and "Divine Providence" is what it says, so let's just ignore history and the religions of the various groups that founded the country. Please tell us which "God" this country was founded under/for/by...

RN1982 · Jul 26, 2008

What do you mean by "is"?
Your right, I am wrong...The Constitution was a reach (and an error) but the Declaration of Independence is pretty clear..."God" and "Divine Providence" is what it says, so let's just ignore history and the religions of the various groups that founded the country. Please tell us which "God" this country was founded under/for/by...

The people who wrote the Declaration of Independence came here because of religious freedom. I'm not ignoring history at all. Regardless of what the Declaration states, there is NO established official religion of this country. That would be against the first amendment.

The first sentence of the Declaration asserts as a matter of Natural Law the ability of a people to assume political independence, and acknowledges that the grounds for such independence must be reasonable.

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."

It doesn't say christian God.

RN Randy · Jul 26, 2008

I know this topic has been discussed before on this site..but, I was curious for an updated response. How many of you would be willing to pay more taxes for universal healthcare? I find it egregious that the US has put a cost on maintaining/saving ones life! I traveled to Europe and the thought of them having to bring their checkbook to the hospital aroused literal laughs. It's the same notion that we'd have to whip out our debit card to firefighters before they turned the hoses on our burning homes. It's sad. I think the overall costs of UH would be beneficial...in fact, the raised taxes would still probably be lower than our rising premiums every 2 weeks! Thoughts?

NEVER will raising taxes be a good idea. Have you even looked at the TOP of your paycheck lately?? You make a hypothetical 100K per year and you have no problem handing over $30,000 per year to the government as THEY see fit??? Plus you want to increase that number AND give the government control over your health???

What that means is, you're already willing to come to work 5 days/week for almost 4 months so you can help pay Senator so-n-so to pork some kid in his stretch limo between lobster dinners that you also paid for, before you even make a single dime for the year, and now you're willing to pay even more to the gov't AND give up your right to choose, instead of keeping control, and paying the insurance company yourself.

Take 30,000 people that pay 30,000 per year taxes, and that ALONE is nearly a BILLION dollars handed over.... that is then spent with zero input from the investors.

I wish I had that kind of charity in me.

Taxes will never be welcome, useful or productive until the current holes in the bucket are patched. Take off your shades... here's a far-ended look, but it has real truth.

http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/08/16/15-government-programs-we-dont-need/

Note that I don't agree with everything there, but there is a really strong percentage.

Do I want my money spent on a study of American car-buyer body style preferences? Nope. Feed or house somebody with it.

BUT:

You tell me what I can do about it without spending even MORE money that I don't have?

The only thing we need to raise as a society are our STANDARDS and AWARENESS.

rb

RN Randy · Jul 26, 2008

See, that's my point. That's what needs to happen here. It doesn't though. It's always the families choice and doctors can't make that decision on their own no matter how futile the patient's situation is.

So, when the Univ. Healthcare guys come in and say, "Yo MI RN, your mom is in chronic renal failure, and unfortunately, although she is otherwise healthy, ambulatory and golfing twice a week, she's over the age limit for dialysis. You should just take her home and enjoy the time you have...."

[or hire a private dialysis company for 100k per year.]

I bet you'll be singing a different song, then.

Consider spending less time with Mr. Moore and more time surfing for real world cases, and you'll understand. US Healthcare is broken, yes. It needs fixed.

There is no perfect fix and the grass isn't always greener.

rb

allnurses Guide · Jul 26, 2008

So, when the Univ. Healthcare guys come in and say, "Yo MI RN, your mom is in chronic renal failure, and unfortunately, although she is otherwise healthy, ambulatory and golfing twice a week, she's over the age limit for dialysis. You should just take her home and enjoy the time you have...."
[or hire a private dialysis company for 100k per year.]
I bet you'll be singing a different song, then.
Consider spending less time with Mr. Moore and more time surfing for real world cases, and you'll understand. US Healthcare is broken, yes. It needs fixed.
There is no perfect fix and the grass isn't always greener.
rb

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

Because of course that's what happens in the UK / Canada and other countries with UHC. You cost too much and then you get switched off :yeah:

(your example really made me giggle)

Seriously, and I am speaking about the UK because that's what I know about, it is not up to the administrators or the government who gets healthcare it's up to the clinicians. Judging from what I read in the posts about nursing issues in the US I think that healthcare and healthcare providers are far more accountable to the public as well, we have to explain ourselves to the people we treat rather than the people with the purse strings. I have never had a administrator or manager tell me I cannot prescribe that medication, use that dressing, refuse to provide care for anyone on the basis of finance.

It is not perfect, I'll give you that and there are many things that we could learn from the US about providing healthcare but please, and respectfully I really do mean this with respect

"Yo MI RN, your mom is in chronic renal failure, and unfortunately, although she is otherwise healthy, ambulatory and golfing twice a week, she's over the age limit for dialysis. You should just take her home and enjoy the time you have...."
[or hire a private dialysis company for 100k per year.]

Could you use an example that is not quite so laughable, I nearly choked on my coffee laughing when I read that .

SteveNNP, MSN, NP · Jul 26, 2008

I wont flame you. I just think our healthcare system is severely broken, but I am all for a good debate.
It must be very hard to work around those conditions day in and day out Steve. I did an internship with DSS when I was younger, and it was very very tough on me to see what those mothers put their children through. It turned me away from my youth's desire to be a Social Worker actually, because I didn't think I could stand it for the rest of my life (and for very low wages to boot) I often weigh back and forth as to whether I want to go into NICU/peds nursing because that is where my heart calls me, or stay as far away from it as I can, because I know my heart will get broken by what I witness.

Thanks. I can't tell you how many children I've primaried for months that I had to see go into foster care, or worse, back into a non-recovered mom's custody, only to see him come back into the ER, dead. I wish sometimes I had the ability to provide a home to some of these kids.

RN1982 · Jul 26, 2008

so, when the univ. healthcare guys come in and say, "yo mi rn, your mom is in chronic renal failure, and unfortunately, although she is otherwise healthy, ambulatory and golfing twice a week, she's over the age limit for dialysis. you should just take her home and enjoy the time you have...."

[or hire a private dialysis company for 100k per year.]

if you've read my other posts, i was not speaking about crf patients who lead a normal life. i was speaking about patients who are brain dead and whose families want to keep them alive via ventilator. i thought your response was very rude.

consider spending less time with mr. moore and more time surfing for real world cases, and you'll understand. us healthcare is broken, yes. it needs fixed.

there is no perfect fix and the grass isn't always greener.

i've never watched his stupid movie on healthcare and yes, i realize that there is no quick fix to the u.s. healthcare system. anyhow, my next question is, if someone gets sick and has a 7 month hospital stay, does the government pick up most of the cost with universal healthcare or all of the cost?